I've been lurking on various forums for a while now and you guys definitely stand out as the cream of the crop when it comes to knowledge and debunking bs so i chose to join even though i don't own a honda(i have owned hondas in the past but not any more and it doesn't have to do with car theft it was just personal preference).

A few things though:

1. the whole "if they want it bad enough they'll get it" has been beaten worse than any dead horse can be and it's a well-known idea but isn't necessarily true so lets just drop that.

2. the whole "don't post ideas because car thieves may be reading and will use them to their advantage" has been beaten to death as well. here is why: while you don't have to post specifics about ideas, merely posting the idea gives the majority of the honest members ways to better protect their own cars and will do nothing to help the car thieves. don't post where you put your kill switch, just post ways to make it work better since the end-all be-all of kill switch arguments is "cut the wires to what ever has a kill switch on it and connect them together." we know that already and the car thieves know that already. anyone that has basic electrical knowledge knows that already without having to read it on a forum.

3. alarms are more than just noisemakers and should be installed(properly)

4. the ravelco is just a very expensive kill switch that gives a thief a great place to start their rewiring. kinda like putting all your keys on the same ring in plain view but using lots of keys so they have to try all the keys first. probably better to scatter your keys, throw in some dummy ones, and hide them as well as you can, and leave them unlabeled so even when someone finally manages to find all the keys, they still have to start at the spot where they try keys. since the ravelco is installed on so many cars then i can guarantee you thieves have seen enough of them that they are slowly figuring out how they can attack that problem the most efficiently. conversely, if you install your own kill switches then everyone knows a DIY job usually has little to no worldwide set of instructions and are harder to undo since they aren't localized in the car. most of you will understand where i'm going with this.

5. gps is a great(albeit very expensive) idea but has its disadvantages as well.

6. many of you have misplaced paranoia about tow trucks and usually preface or end your post with "if they want it bad enough they'll flatbed it out." this is very true but highly unlikely and this is where external (not on/in the car) security measures come into play. it's like saying "well my laptop has lots of passwords on it in various stages but if someone wants it bad enough they'll just take the whole laptop instead of trying to get my files which will then allow them to crack the passwords at their leisure." well if you put your laptop in a safe then it makes it much harder to take your laptop. this is where a garage comes into play. if you don't live in a place that has a garage then you have options: move to a place that has a lower instance of car theft(this will also reduce your insurance rate), park in a well-lit and highly-trafficked area, move to a place that has a garage, etc.

the reason the flatbed instance isn't very likely is because they make lots of noise, they severely increase the penalty of car theft, and they are difficult to obtain not to mention i'd be willing to bet most of you with heavily modified motors/suspension handle a lot better than a tow truck and a tow truck with a car on the back can't maneuver and accelerate as well so they'll move slower which increases their visibility.

7. stop buying parts that you think are probably or definitely stolen since this perpetuates the market and is what drives car theft other than shipment overseas and people generally wanting parts/cars that they can't otherwise afford. most of the theft that occurs is for resale for cash since people don't want to get busted with hot goods. if we stop buying these parts then it shrinks the market and demand drops.

so here are your options:

1. go all out with security and make sure your insurance is paid up and constructed so it will cover extra things on your car or find new insurance if it wont.

2. move to a much safer neighborhood/park in an area that is very secure.

3. sell your car and buy something that people don't want to steal.

that being said, i have lots of security questions since i want to do #1 for my car and by the looks of it wrx-killer-sti-eater and a few others are the ones i'm going to be asking.

edit: forgot to add, don't leave anything in the car that you don't want someone else to have. i.e. registration and insurance are with me at all times and not in the car and aside from a few CDs there is nothing identifying me, where i live, etc. in the car so if they take the car at least i don't have to worry about identity theft later which is one of the things thieves may be stealing your car for besides valuables, parts, and the car itself.

 

Great Analysis. Everything has it's good and it's bad. That's how it is with a Honda.

 

Here's my quick insight on alarms:

They are proven to deter theft. Those who would rather buy those "JDM" seats or gauge cluster instead of an alarm system.....I have no pity for them if their precious little car gets stolen.

 

Good post:

I'm curious as to what you think the disadvantages to a GPS or monitoring system may be? I know that thieves can easily find the antenna or GPS device, but there are other systems that use cellphone networks to track and these devices are much easier to hide. Without doubt a secure garage is by far the best deterent and so are other things such as a boot, a removable steering wheel and immobilizers.
Besides a garage, the area you park your car in is probably the next best deterent. If you dont have a garage, but you have a second car, my suggestion would be to park one car (the one you dont want to have stolen) behind another car where it would make it very difficult for a tow truck or flatbed to get access too.
I am fascinated with security, moreso home security, but you can utilize cameras to your advantage. If you park in a public place you can always park in an area where there are cameras, a CCTV is very popular now cameras are pretty easy to find. Or you can place camera's in your driveway, garage, etc to deter even more. I know that iZon and iCamViewer are now available as an app with iPhones. You can place cameras in strategic areas to monitor your car if parked outside or inside your place, it works with your Wi-Fi and alerts you to movement and sound, furthermore, add stickers stating that they are under surveillance too. Let it be known that they are being watched.

 

The key to all security is the unknown. Meaning you don't stick stickers on your car declaring the make and model of the alarm you have. You don't tell your best friend all the cool new features you have. The less known about your alarm the better.

I harp on that main relay kill because it IMO is no better then a fuel pump kill. In fact IMO it's easier to bypass. The key to its effectiveness is that its not as well known. Over time that will change. So the real key is adding layers that aren't know to everyone else. You can stick the tried and true kills in there. If anything they serve to slow someone down. But it's what you do that others dont know about is what makes or breaks a truely secure alarm.

And to answer your question GPS and paging alarms are easily defeated if you know the person has it.

 

While I agree that a layered type of protection serves a good purpose, I do not agree wiith trying to hide the fact that your car is being watched. Yes, a stealth installation is better, but as far as camera monitoring, it is more of a deterent to advise that your property is being watched. This serves as a deterent in itself. Picture yourself in a store/bank or anywhere for that matter that has multiple cameras and signs saying that you are being watched. Now picture yourself in that same place without any signs of surveillance...which one would you choose to rob? Personally, I would go with the store that has no signs of surveillance. However, I do agree that puting a sticker on your car stating that it has an alarm is not a good idea, but that's not what I was implying. I was talking more about camera surveillance and adding a sign to state that your property is under surveillance. The key though, is placing the cameras in strategic areas that arent accessible to the thieves.

 

An idiot would choose to go to the one with hidden camera's. A competent theif would disable the camera's that are in clear view. Seeing how just about all banks have camera's it doesn't really stop anyone.

Stating you have a security system IMO is good enough. Which a blinking red light does that. Telling someone you have aditional security beyond that doesn't serve any purpose but to educate the theif on how to go about disabling your alarm.

And since we are on camera's about they only thing they are good for is watching your goods make there way down the street. They rarely can be used to identify someone without having some knowledge of who the person might be to begin with.

 

I went tru and redid alot of my old main relay jobs which forces a theif to rewire the complete fuel and ecu circuit. Also this requires the main relay to be relocated which I allways do. Nsx. I would be happy for you to check it out and I will send you a copy.

As for a gps unit attenna being cut or tampered with. That goes with install. You should not be able to tamper with.

 

I went tru and redid alot of my old main relay jobs which forces a theif to rewire the complete fuel and ecu circuit. Also this requires the main relay to be relocated which I allways do. Nsx. I would be happy for you to check it out and I will send you a copy.

As for a gps unit attenna being cut or tampered with. That goes with install. You should not be able to tamper with.

 

Well the disadvantages of GPS that I can think of are these 3:
Requires battery power of some kind either separate or car battery, Requires antenna which can be broken and may disrupt signal, Requires mostly unobstructed view of the sky.

The antenna one is rather simple to do if you use multiple antennae or just make it difficult to access before your pager goes off.

The battery one is simple as well to an extent and that mostly depends on battery capacity and how much power the GPS unit draws.

The sky one is a little more difficult but can work to your advantage. If a thief suspects the vehicle has GPS then he may just park it in the lower levels of a parking garage to block the signal and wait to see if anyone shows up or do the work there. Doing the work there is probably not going to happen though because there is no guarantee of when a curious person/security/police/etc. may go down there for what ever reason.

The good thing about this and something I hope GPS incorporates is the ability for the GPS unit to detect the signal strength or lack thereof and ping the satellites less frequently to conserve power. I.e. if the car is in underground parking then ping only once every 5 or 10 minutes to check for a signal and if none then go into a semi-sleep mode.

The comment about cameras being useless except to watch your stuff get taken isn't entirely true as now that we are all much more connected with social networking then video clips and photos can be posted if we can rely on society to help us identify individuals and take away their anonymity which is a huge tool for them.

While you may say cameras rarely help catch criminals I'd simply ask you this. How many times have cameras hurt the investigation when it comes to identifying someone? Would NOT having cameras in the banks make them better off?

I 100% agree with you though that the less you tell other people about your security, the more secure your stuff is. That is, unless you rely on others as part of your security and the mere ability to keep something secure requires that they know.

 

I use and sell the mobile iq brand a never had a problem with it dropping signal. Its a gps/cellular base. I been in the kodak parking in hollywood and was able to ping my car. I can also park my car on weeks on end and there is no power drain. So the unit does not draw to much power. The unit is only going to peak if you set the alarm off or ping the car to track it. It also has its own power source. So killing the main battery I am not worried about.

And far as attennas go. Why would you mount it in a postion were a theif could get it? It would take you hours before you could get to mine. We an set up all these what iffs in favor of a theif. Most would never ever happen.

I would not be to worried about a theif taking my car into a parking garage. If he would ever make it that far. The car is going to report the last postion before it signal was lost if it gets lost.

 

wrx, how much are the mobile iqs and what is the estimated install time for a person with only basic hand tools and average electrical experience?

also, i'm glad you mentioned pinging it's last known location before lost signal as I was going to add that to my post but I forgot. sounds like the mobile iq is what I am looking for.

 

You can order it from any dealer or from the mobile iq website.

 

You said you use and sell the mobile iqs so can I order one from you? If so, how much?

 

I am not suggesting to tell them that you have an alarm with a gps and other security devices, I was only talking about camera surveillance and letting them know that they are being watched. To me this is being a little more proactive rather than reactive for theft deterent. It's like Neighbourhood Watch programs, and CCTV (big brother) when people know they are being watched they are less likely to commit a crime in plain view of a camera.
If you have trusty neighbours, it might also be a good idea to ask them to keep an eye on your car. The more people that you trust who are able to keep an eye on it the better it is. There are so many strategies that you could use to help yourself

 

$249 plus shipping.

http://www.airiq.ca/consumer.php

 

Social media assumes someone you know might know the somone that ripped you off. Again it goes back to what I am saying that they are only useful if you have some idea of who did it. We don't have facial recognition tools yet available to the public. When it occurs at a bank the police do have facial recognition tools they can run on the image and hopefully collect a match. The media also usually picks it up and broadcasts the image we the public dont have that access. All those facebook photo's everyone likes to post. Those will eventually be searchable by facial recognition software available to the police. When that becomes available to the public who knows.

Secondly most publically available camera are 420p some claim HD 720p and even higher but to get that quality its stop motion at best (which is blurry if they are moving).

And all that gets back to dont tell your best bud all your cool features. No telling who he will brag about it to.

I'm not saying to not have it I have them on my house. But if you tell someone you have it it's pretty easy to obscure the face or come at your camera in such a way to disable it. If you want the best chance of collecting a clear image you don't tell anyone you have it. By the time they figure it out its to late. All my camera's are hidden you can't tell from looking that you are being photographed.

 

Attacking the antenna is the easy cheap route which most are mounted in the windshield a drill bit through the windshield takes care of that. Sattelite signal is a very very weak signal very easy to jam. You can google gps jammer and come up with all sorts of cheap effective tools. Same goes for paging alarms although a little harder and more expensive to jam since the transmitter is about 1 Watt.

 

If you want to send it to me privately to evaluate I can do that. If you post it public then its open to being ripped apart.

 

I agree with most of what you're saying.

Common misconceptions with alarms is that people ignore sirens, therefore the alarm is worthless:

If an alarm requires input (response) of a 3rd party (unknown bystander) to respond to, and counter an attacker, you have already installed a flawed security system.

The siren is a "feature", and is not any more required than automatic door locks, or remote-start or heated seats.

The purpose of the alarm is to immobilize the vehicle in the case of intrusion, and should be able to perform this function on its own. If you have installed an alarm in such a way that it depends on a mall rat to turn ninja on a car thief, you have failed miserably.

This philosophy (unfortunately) is considered radical, out of the mainstream, and the "people ignore sirens, therefore alarms are useless" will continue.

All the emphasis is placed on the *siren* and not any other aspect of the security system.