Reducing road noise?
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From: Irvine, CA, USA
Re: Reducing road noise? (mesh)
Ok here we go.
There are 2 basic ways to attack this:
Vibration dampening: Application of mass-loading products to both lower the resonant frequency of a surface and dissipate mechanical vibration into heat energy. This is what products like Dynamat do.
For these types of products, there are 3-4 basic compositions.
Butyl Based mats, Asphault-based mats, Liquid deadeners, and somewhere in there, they can claim to be viscoelastic (but this is not a composition, so don't mind this).
Butyl - Higher heat tolerance, better performance/weight ratio, less odor, generally just easier.
Examples: Dynamat Extreme, Brownbread, SecondSkin damplifier and Damplifier Pro, Raammat BXT (best deal at $89 to $99 + shipping for 62.5 ft^2).
Asphault: May melt off if applied to Roof, trunk-lid, vertical surfaces (depends on heat), inexpensive, distinct odor (goes away after a while), a little messy sometimes.
Examples: Dynamat, eDead mats, Raammat 60 and Raammat original, most other products out there...
Liquid: Best performance/weight ratio, high heat tolerance, less odor, Paint-brush application, generally claim to be viscoelastic.
Examples: Secondskin Spectrum v3, eDead v3, Cascade Audio Engineering Liquid.
As far as vibration dampening, the best option would be to use butyle and liquid, or just liquid if you're trying to save weight. Other techniques include expanding insulative foam, non-hardening clay, concrete-linings, rubber gaskets and grommets, rubber-based isolation.
Sound Barriers: This will BLOCK noise, but it will not stop vibration. These are generally open-cell foam, so it's important to use a closed-cell product for the first layer so water doesn't SOAK your investment. Many pros use closed-cell only. These products are also used to stop sound reflections in competition-level audio systems.
Examples: Ensolite, Acoustic wedge/dimple foam, other products (there are a few really great ones but I cannot remember names right now). These are applied using an adhesive above the vibration-dampening layers. SecondskinAudio and Dynamat make some "Luxury Liner" type foams which fall in this category. Some manufacturers make a vibration/barrier type product, with foam on top of a mat.
The best audio systems will use both vibration/isolation and Barrier products. The quietest luxury cars will also use something similar, but not quite the same. This means they can be made even quieter with these superior products (depends on which ones you use and how/where you use them).
ok...there
There are 2 basic ways to attack this:
Vibration dampening: Application of mass-loading products to both lower the resonant frequency of a surface and dissipate mechanical vibration into heat energy. This is what products like Dynamat do.
For these types of products, there are 3-4 basic compositions.
Butyl Based mats, Asphault-based mats, Liquid deadeners, and somewhere in there, they can claim to be viscoelastic (but this is not a composition, so don't mind this).
Butyl - Higher heat tolerance, better performance/weight ratio, less odor, generally just easier.
Examples: Dynamat Extreme, Brownbread, SecondSkin damplifier and Damplifier Pro, Raammat BXT (best deal at $89 to $99 + shipping for 62.5 ft^2).
Asphault: May melt off if applied to Roof, trunk-lid, vertical surfaces (depends on heat), inexpensive, distinct odor (goes away after a while), a little messy sometimes.
Examples: Dynamat, eDead mats, Raammat 60 and Raammat original, most other products out there...
Liquid: Best performance/weight ratio, high heat tolerance, less odor, Paint-brush application, generally claim to be viscoelastic.
Examples: Secondskin Spectrum v3, eDead v3, Cascade Audio Engineering Liquid.
As far as vibration dampening, the best option would be to use butyle and liquid, or just liquid if you're trying to save weight. Other techniques include expanding insulative foam, non-hardening clay, concrete-linings, rubber gaskets and grommets, rubber-based isolation.
Sound Barriers: This will BLOCK noise, but it will not stop vibration. These are generally open-cell foam, so it's important to use a closed-cell product for the first layer so water doesn't SOAK your investment. Many pros use closed-cell only. These products are also used to stop sound reflections in competition-level audio systems.
Examples: Ensolite, Acoustic wedge/dimple foam, other products (there are a few really great ones but I cannot remember names right now). These are applied using an adhesive above the vibration-dampening layers. SecondskinAudio and Dynamat make some "Luxury Liner" type foams which fall in this category. Some manufacturers make a vibration/barrier type product, with foam on top of a mat.
The best audio systems will use both vibration/isolation and Barrier products. The quietest luxury cars will also use something similar, but not quite the same. This means they can be made even quieter with these superior products (depends on which ones you use and how/where you use them).
ok...there
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 509
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From: Irvine, CA, USA
Re: Reducing road noise? (archmage)
Sorry, forgot about links.
http://www.secondskinaudio.com [Have a nice deal on B-stock Spectrum v2, and I have enough faith in this company that I have a 5-gallon order for Spectrum v3 ($269 shipped)].
http://www.edesignaudio.com [20% discount on edead products available]
http://www.raamaudio.com
Cascade Audio is sold through many resellers, but: http://www.cascadeaudio.com/
http://www.b-quiet.com/ [I guess brownbread was replaced by B-quiet Ultimate, looks good]
http://www.madmat.net/ - another butyl entry, supposed to be good, but haven't tried it.
I think Mcmaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/ --sells some useful raw materials; I remember one serious sound-competitor using a 1" thick foam from there. I have it saved somewhere because the numbers were quite impressive (various claimed performance coefficients). Some of these may be more useful for Home-audio insulation though.
http://www.secondskinaudio.com [Have a nice deal on B-stock Spectrum v2, and I have enough faith in this company that I have a 5-gallon order for Spectrum v3 ($269 shipped)].
http://www.edesignaudio.com [20% discount on edead products available]
http://www.raamaudio.com
Cascade Audio is sold through many resellers, but: http://www.cascadeaudio.com/
http://www.b-quiet.com/ [I guess brownbread was replaced by B-quiet Ultimate, looks good]
http://www.madmat.net/ - another butyl entry, supposed to be good, but haven't tried it.
I think Mcmaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/ --sells some useful raw materials; I remember one serious sound-competitor using a 1" thick foam from there. I have it saved somewhere because the numbers were quite impressive (various claimed performance coefficients). Some of these may be more useful for Home-audio insulation though.
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,182
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From: Never Never Land, Ohio, USA
Re: Reducing road noise? (archmage)
yay! lol, depending on money Ill be doing doors, quarter pannels, and trunk in a bquiet/brown bread fashion, then hopefully the foam is cheap so I can do a layer of that...
I think the $64,000 question though, is which place is most of the sound coming from... with some luck and some money, this summer I might be able to accurately explain that on a 2000 coupe
I think the $64,000 question though, is which place is most of the sound coming from... with some luck and some money, this summer I might be able to accurately explain that on a 2000 coupe
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 509
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From: Irvine, CA, USA
Re: Reducing road noise?
Where is the sound coming from?
After riding in supposedly thoroughly deadened vehicles, I've noticed that it could still be much better.
I've found that what these people missed = Wheel Wells and undercarriage, firewall, and sometimes the roof.
Just the first two will net a huge improvement on an already moderately deadened car (reducing road noise)
After riding in supposedly thoroughly deadened vehicles, I've noticed that it could still be much better.
I've found that what these people missed = Wheel Wells and undercarriage, firewall, and sometimes the roof.
Just the first two will net a huge improvement on an already moderately deadened car (reducing road noise)
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From: Never Never Land, Ohio, USA
Re: Reducing road noise? (archmage)
so by say respraying the wheel wells with something after cleaning them off... or perhaps maybe even adding some mat on the inside engine bay on the metal of the wheel wells... that should help them... right?
But for the undercarriage... Would just putting some bquiet mat down on it under the carpet help in that aspect, or using some sound absorbtion closed cell foam.
But for the undercarriage... Would just putting some bquiet mat down on it under the carpet help in that aspect, or using some sound absorbtion closed cell foam.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Irvine, CA, USA
Re: Reducing road noise?
Wheel wells - Clean them off, sand a bit if there is rust. I'd generally use a liquid for this application - and yes, it'd help. Often even non-audio guys use an undercoating here to protect against rust and sound-deaden a bit. It turns out that the audio-specific liquids work better for this application though.
Interior Floor: I'd apply deadening material and then absorption material on top of that. You got the right idea.
Exterior Undercarriage: This is where I'd again apply a liquid. I think that when the exterior is also handled, more surface area is deadened - it becomes more effective than what could be done with interior deadening alone. It's not entirely necessary though, unlike the wheel well application.
Plan on my new LIGHT car: 1-2 layers of liquid in wheel wells, 1 layer on undercarriage, 1-3 layers of liquid in the interior depending upon need, barrier foam depending on need.
Total weight: 5-8 gallons (9.5 lbs per gallon dried weight) and about 50-60 total ft^2 of 2 types of barriers (another 25-30 pounds). So at most, 100 non-removable pounds...not bad for what it will do.
Interior Floor: I'd apply deadening material and then absorption material on top of that. You got the right idea.
Exterior Undercarriage: This is where I'd again apply a liquid. I think that when the exterior is also handled, more surface area is deadened - it becomes more effective than what could be done with interior deadening alone. It's not entirely necessary though, unlike the wheel well application.
Plan on my new LIGHT car: 1-2 layers of liquid in wheel wells, 1 layer on undercarriage, 1-3 layers of liquid in the interior depending upon need, barrier foam depending on need.
Total weight: 5-8 gallons (9.5 lbs per gallon dried weight) and about 50-60 total ft^2 of 2 types of barriers (another 25-30 pounds). So at most, 100 non-removable pounds...not bad for what it will do.
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From: Southern Cali
Re: Reducing road noise? (archmage)
Thanks your everything guys, i am going to go with liquid app in the wheel wells and rear interior while i have everything gutted, I am also buying some sound deadining material for the floor and rear. I just want a quieter car, thats my ultimate goal.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by archmage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wheel wells - Clean them off, sand a bit if there is rust. I'd generally use a liquid for this application - and yes, it'd help. Often even non-audio guys use an undercoating here to protect against rust and sound-deaden a bit. It turns out that the audio-specific liquids work better for this application though.
Interior Floor: I'd apply deadening material and then absorption material on top of that. You got the right idea.
Exterior Undercarriage: This is where I'd again apply a liquid. I think that when the exterior is also handled, more surface area is deadened - it becomes more effective than what could be done with interior deadening alone. It's not entirely necessary though, unlike the wheel well application.
Plan on my new LIGHT car: 1-2 layers of liquid in wheel wells, 1 layer on undercarriage, 1-3 layers of liquid in the interior depending upon need, barrier foam depending on need.
Total weight: 5-8 gallons (9.5 lbs per gallon dried weight) and about 50-60 total ft^2 of 2 types of barriers (another 25-30 pounds). So at most, 100 non-removable pounds...not bad for what it will do.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by archmage »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wheel wells - Clean them off, sand a bit if there is rust. I'd generally use a liquid for this application - and yes, it'd help. Often even non-audio guys use an undercoating here to protect against rust and sound-deaden a bit. It turns out that the audio-specific liquids work better for this application though.
Interior Floor: I'd apply deadening material and then absorption material on top of that. You got the right idea.
Exterior Undercarriage: This is where I'd again apply a liquid. I think that when the exterior is also handled, more surface area is deadened - it becomes more effective than what could be done with interior deadening alone. It's not entirely necessary though, unlike the wheel well application.
Plan on my new LIGHT car: 1-2 layers of liquid in wheel wells, 1 layer on undercarriage, 1-3 layers of liquid in the interior depending upon need, barrier foam depending on need.
Total weight: 5-8 gallons (9.5 lbs per gallon dried weight) and about 50-60 total ft^2 of 2 types of barriers (another 25-30 pounds). So at most, 100 non-removable pounds...not bad for what it will do.</TD></TR></TABLE>
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From: Southern Cali
Now anyone have any good idea's on locations to place my sound deadining mats within the interior of the car. I want to know all places I should be putting it and anyone know how much is needed to complete a car decently.
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From: Never Never Land, Ohio, USA
Re: (Cole D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cole D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">about 75 sq. ft
</TD></TR></TABLE> wow lol, well I hope I get enough when I order, I forget if it is 40 or 50... of course I am not doing the fire wall, floor, or roof (moon roof... bah) just everything else.
</TD></TR></TABLE> wow lol, well I hope I get enough when I order, I forget if it is 40 or 50... of course I am not doing the fire wall, floor, or roof (moon roof... bah) just everything else.
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