somethin_random

Hey, I don't have a Honda but this seems like the only place to get answers on this type of stuff... Although me and Hondas are like ... :D

Anyway, I have an 84 Monte Carlo and I plan on installing an Autopage RS-660 that I bought brand new years ago but never used it for anything.

I'm actually just going through the manual page by page and using Google until I understand each step 100%, then after I feel confident about all of it, I will actually tackle the project..

I'm on page 11 out of 31, so I have a few questions now but I may have some more later on...

I would really appreciate any advice I can get...

There is a 5 Pin Wire Harness and I'm looking at the directions for the Red\White Wire aka Parking Light Relay Input

It says "If the vehicle you are working on has +12volt switched parking lights, you don't need to connect this wire"

I guess I just need to figure out if my parking lights are +12volt switched or if they are ground switched, I don't really understand what ground switched means.


Also, In the same 5 Pin Wire Harness, there is a Brown Wire aka (+) 2A Siren Output... The directions say that the wire is provided to use "the existing vehicle's siren" , now in the box came a new siren as well so I skimmed ahead and tried to find what wire would go to the new siren but I couldn't find anything, I was almost sure that this brown would go to the new siren after looking at a friend viper alarm which used a brown wire, can someone confirm that for me?

Now I'm trying to figure out 12 Pin Molex White Connector Harness, most of the directions for these wires don't specifically say where to hook each on up at, I'm probably just misunderstanding it right now...

Anyway, thanks in advance for help provided

DMaldonado93

well a ground switch usually refers to a switch that is in the ground wire of the component (opposed to on the positive wire)

As far as the siren output wire I would assume that yes it should go to the siren its self but if so there should be two wires that should go to it?

fcm

Sounds like you are misreading the instructions, alarms that havew a park light input and park light output can be used with both ground switched and 12V+ switched park lights, whatever you connect the input to you will get out of the output, your Monty is 12V+ switched park lights, [should be a brown lead a the head light switch].

Connect the input, [red/white] to the head light switch park light power and the output , [white] to the park light switch output. [brown], Sorry can't rememer the switchs input power, there are only two, it will be the thinner of the two power leads to the switch.

Feel free to IM me if you have questions. 94

somethin_random

Thanks guys! I was able to get the power, siren, and parking lights working... I stopped there though as now I would like to mount and wire these universal power lock actuators. The car originally is manual so I went and bought the kit, I'm just looking at the wiring now. I tested it out by hooking the green and blue wire on the actuator to the green and blue on the alarm brain, it worked although it seemed a little weak. I was thinking if I were to reverse the wires that it may be more powerful or maybe not, I didn't try it though.

Could you tell me how I would run both front door actuators (2 sets of Gn & Bl wires total) to the brain which only has 1 set of of wires?

fcm

The alarms door lock outputs, [green and blue] are low current, [250mA] connecting directly to the actuators will damage the lock/unlock outputs, you will need to add a pair of SPDT relays, wired like this, [from http://www.the12volt.com/relays/relays.asp ]



The above is a ground at rest polarity reversing setup, becaues your alarms door lock outputs most be pos.(+) or neg.(-) you can wire the relays as above or as a power at rest, the pos.(+), [red] and neg.(-), [black] would be switched. 94

somethin_random

Thanks, I have a couple follow up questions. I am a complete noob at this stuff so I have been using the internet to make sure I understand everything to avoid problems.

In that relay diagram, I noticed it says the power is a 12v fused. I was going to run it's own wire from the battery with a 10 amp fuse about 6 inches from the battery post.

I wanted to make sure I chose the right size fuse, after reading around, I chose a 10 amp fuse because the smallest wire in the above diagram is 22 awg (actuator wire), is this correct?

Also, could I use a little bit bigger of a wire to splices into the 22 awg without causing any problems?

Finally, how do you go about connecting 3 wires (12v wire in diagram)? Would I just splice like normal or is this a special way when using 3 wires?

Axatax

A 10A fuse for two doors is fine, as is 22AWG from end-to-end.

Absolutely, and is recommended. 18AWG is preferable.

One could probably write an entire encyclopedia on this topic, as no two people in the automotive world seemingly agree on the "proper" way to connect one wire to another. The Honda community provides prime examples of exactly how *not* to join two wires together. I'm a true believer in Molex-style connectors, but the proper tooling and terminations can be exceedingly expensive. If you can't swing this, consider soldering or non-insulated butt connections and heat shrink.

At all costs, resist the urge to use those red/blue/yellow "butt" connectors and the stamped metal "crimp tools". This is *always* the wrong way to do anything electrical in a vehicle and the next owner will thank you for your courtesy.

If you have any questions about this, stop and think about the following: How did the original manufacturer terminate the factory wiring? I promise you it was not with "butt connections". Follow their example and search out the proper terminations and tooling to do the job correctly.

fcm

We use 16ga for the long runs to the actuators and 16ga to wire the relays.

There are actually 4 terminals on the relays that need power, to do those connections run a lead from the fused power to each relay #87, daisy chane a smaller, [18/20/22 gauge] from #87 to #85/#86 on each relay.

It really makes no diff. how you do it, you can split the single fused lead into four (4) leads and run them onto the terminals you need, keep in mind, #s87 will be high current, so 16ga to them, same with the grounds, #s 87a need to be 16ga, the relay coil terminals, #s 85 and 86 are low current so 22ga will work fine for them.

The quick release terminals you use on the relays can be crimped to the leads, everything else on the alarms wiring needs to be soldered and covered with shrink tubing, electrical tape will not cut it, it eventually unravels.

"How did the original manufacturer terminate the factory wiring?"

Would it surprise you that with very few exceptions, all factory wiring/terminals are crimped, very few connections on a very few cars are soldered, and most in-line/Y connections are just uninsulated butt connectors with shrink tubing on them. 94

somethin_random

I'm going to replace the window motors while I am installing the power locks and I'm waiting on them to be delivered. I will keep you updated as soon as I get done.

Thanks all

Axatax

I'm not sure who this was directed at , but as stated, I'm a supporter of Molex-style connections which are *crimped*, and which are used in the majority of vehicle electrical systems.

somethin_random

Sorry it took me so long for the update... I have successfully installed both key less entry power locks... Thanks fcm & company! I'm going to jump into the remote start in a few weeks, that might be complicated for my carbureted car... I'm messing with the car audio now, slowly learning everything there is to know.

I'm a little worried about all the connections at the battery though. I ran the power locks their own power wire to the battery instead of using the alarm's power wire. I did that because I was just following instructions and I didn't want to mess it up and I figured it was fine, now though, I am planning on running 2 amps and an electronic crossover, and an equalizer and I want to use a little connections at the battery as possible.

Is there anyway I can go back and use one power wire for both the alarm brain and power locks? Will I need to use a relay? If so, could you show me the correct diagram again?

Also, for all the electronics I plan on adding, what is the cheapest but still legitimate way to make sure my car and the battery can handle it? Ex: Will I need to make any upgrade?

Thanks again

Axatax

Sure can. Size the wire gauge appropriately and fuse it at the battery, then split it 2-ways at the alarm/door lock controller or relays and fuse both ends.

When you start to get more than 2 or so wires at the battery, you can get an auxiliary fuse panel to make the connections more organized. I have all my aftermarket stuff off a separate fuse panel. For amps, you're pretty much going to be limited to car-audio type fuse blocks due to the high current draw. IMHO, the quality of a lot of the car audio electrical stuff is questionable.

somethin_random

Thanks, I've been real slow getting this done... Those fuse blocks are awesome and I plan to get one soon, hopefully not having one right now isn't the cause for my newest issue...

I have terrible ground loop, I believe it's called. I can hear the head unit processing everything even with the volume at 0 and the engine off, I'm pretty sure I'm even hearing the CD spin in my speakers. I had some ground loop isolators and I plugged them up at the amp and it may have reduced the noise but not completely PLUS it reduced the lower frequencies coming from my 6x9's.

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This is my set up minus brands and specs, starting at the battery.

2 [probably] 4 gauge fused power amp wires running to underneath the driver side firewall down the driver side, one crosses to the passenger side underneath the back seat. The driver side goes to the mono amp and the other to the 4 channel amp.

1 remote wire from the head unit down the driver side as well, connected to the mono amp, while running the remote wire for the 4 channel amp from the mono amp remote connection. (((The remote wire has always been ran with the (1) power wire for the mono amp and I never had noise, maybe since there is 2 power wires now though?)))

Mono amp RCAs are running down the driver side as well as that was how I got the car.

Driver side tweeter non-factory (new wires I ran) wires are ran down the driver too.

4 channel amp RCAs run down the passenger side along with the passenger side tweeter wires.

The tweeter wires run to two passive crossovers mounted closely to the amp. I went off the diagrams in my component set manual, (((afterwards I learned that a lot of people place their passive crossovers near the tweeter, I'm hoping that isn't the issue.))) The passive crossovers then are split connected to the 6x9's and the amp (the passives are not hooked directly to the amp).

Each amp has a nice short ground to each side of the trunk's frame(?).
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I've tried the ground loop isos as I mentioned, I may try hooking them at the head unit side but I would really like to avoid them altogether.

I tried disconnecting the mono amp by removing the ground from it. I tried having the remote wire run directly to the 4 channel, no luck.

The RCAs may run "across" the 4 channel power wire underneath the back seat, would this minor touch cause such bad noise & interference...?

I may have one of the speakers connected backwards (negative into positive, vice\v) but I don't think that would cause the issue, I'm going to try switching them around next though.

Any ideas? Sorry for the long post, I broke it up a lot to try and keep it organized

just_bn_me83

you should have all your power wires running down one side of the car and all your source/signal wires (rcas) running down the other side along with any speaker wires. Running power wires and specifically your High channel speakers rcas down the same side will cause noise issues. you want to try to keep rca's as far away as possible from power wires as a good practice, unless you intend on spending some serious money on good rca's.

just_bn_me83

I would also try to find a solid point on the frame in the trunk area, not the thin metal that lines the trunk of your car. A good place in most cars is where you rear seats bolt into the frame of the car. have all your ground wires for amps going to one main ground, not a seperate one for each.

somethin_random

The power wire and rcas for the mono amp were together down the driver side since I got the car without issues but I understand what you mean since I now have a high freq amp. But I completely disconnected the mono amp and it's RCAs so that is checked off. You said the speaker wires shouldn't be with the power as well so what I did was unhook the driver side speakers because they were ran with the power wires and I'm still getting noise from the passenger side where no power wires are around.

The ground is connected to a frame that makes the trunk go up and down, the same as the mono amp has always been connected, just opposite sides. ?

somethin_random

here is a picture of a random car - http://home.comcast.net/~rfpowerdude...rside_shk1.jpg the grounds are hooked to that vertical piece that's on top of the wheel (whatever it's called)

just_bn_me83

speakers wires not a big deal which side, its the rcas/signal wires for high's that should be ran seperate from power. Ground point should be a solid point on the body/frame of the car. The thin metal walls of the trunk and trunks frame woirk as well as wheel wells DO NOT make good grounding points. It might work but you want a more solid point.

just_bn_me83

could be an issue in the amp itself. might not be a wiring issue. are the signal inputs on the amp solid? do they wiggle at all?

somethin_random

thanks...

Right now though, the only RCAs running with the power wires are for the mono amp and I have completely disconnected them to try and figure this out so that is out of the question for the time being. Two sets of RCAs are ran on the passenger side for the 4 channel amp opposite car sides of the power wires and they only touch the 4 channel power wire where they meet at the back seat.

Will change ground points and tighten connections and get back to you...

somethin_random

I'm sorry, I misunderstood this part... I took 2 pictures to show you where the grounds are http://s855.photobucket.com/albums/a...view=slideshow

if that isn't a good location, the only other place I see would be the wheel wells or the back seat frame?

somethin_random

Update 1 - No luck

I've tried 3 different sets of RCAs and I have tried a "dump ground" where I took a wire and ran it from the head unit's ground connection to the amps ground connection, that didn't work so I moved it from the head unit to the battery and still no luck.

It has to be something I did wrong because it is obnoxiously loud even with the radio at 0 and the car off.... Most people have noise when they rev their car

just_bn_me83

Do you have access to another amp? swap the amps out for the highs and see if the problem is still present. If it is it's the wiring or ground issue. If it goes away its the amp.

just_bn_me83

another way you can test the amp is if you have a rca to 3.5mm (headphone plug) conversion wire you can plug an iphone in to it and plug the rcas into the amp to supply signal, if the noise is still there its the amp or the deck.

somethin_random

I didn't have the RCA to 3.5 so I tried a different 4 channel amp. The noise was still there but quieter, then I turned the gain up and it was back to being loud which means the gain was mostly likely up high on the original amp. I didn't care to check because even with the gain up or down, the problem is still there and I figure it might as well be amplified until I can get rid of it. I don't understand what the gain is for yet but one article I read said I shouldn't need it, I don't plan on using it either but for the time being I'll keep it up until the problem is solved. I actually would be satisfied with the noise if the gain is all the way down but I came this far so I might as well get it right.

I guess I'm going to remove all the extra power sources at the battery and run another amp power wire outside of the car and run some extra RCAs I have outside the car as well... After that, I don't know what the hell it could be, maybe the crossovers being to close to the amp?