Will the stock b16 retainers work with supertech's dual valvesprings?

 

anyone????

 

why would you want to do that... IMHO stock retainers are a liability at high rpms, with stiffer springs even more so.

 

sure they will work, will they last or how long, no definate answer

 

from what i've been reading the stock retainers hold up longer than some of the ti's out there.

 

i wouldnt do it. the spring tension on the supertech is alot different than the oem springs. plus not to mention supertech ti retainers are pretty cheap.

 

there were debates on how you can run the stock retainers and that they last longer than the ti ones. even toda said it was up to the customer whether or not they could get retainers or not.

so can you use st valvesprings with stock retainers? yes.

should you? it's entirely up to you, i wouldn't though.

 

im running stock rets. and keepers on ST dual VS, gsr head, bc3 cams. Around 30K miles DD, but who knows for sure how much longer they will last?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by champwhiteEG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from what i've been reading the stock retainers hold up longer than some of the ti's out there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

there was a big long thread i remember reading a long time ago on this whole subject of the pro's and "CON'S" of TI retainers

 

my buddy just lost a motor to a cracked oem retainer.. and that was with stock valve train.. we were only reving it to 9000 rpms.

dont do it.. TI will last a long time

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TI will last a long time</TD></TR></TABLE>

It really depends on a lot things like spring pressure, compression length, driving habits, camshaft, etc.

I personally don't like ti in a daily driver. Ti, typically, does not have as good of fatigue characteristics as steel. In a race car it does not matter because you will checking that stuff very regularly, ie valve lash, etc. Alot, of these parts are really best suited for racing.

I would recommend a good steel retainer for a daily driver, also stay away from the 9k shifts.

 

out of all the motors i have torn apart i have never seen a worn ti retainer... i have seen pictures of maybe 1 set......

 

Dave O is the person I've seen most recently who had a engine fail due to a retainer. I think it was a crower valve train. There was also a thread on here. Another person I know and help on the teardown and rebuild had a failure with a skunk retainer.

 

I have seen plenty of Ti retainers wear thin. Some Ti retainers are better than others. There is also the "chipping" problem along the edges of the ret. associated with high lift cams, but this can be remedied with rocker arm modification.

But let me also state, that JDogg is right, IMO. I would go with the Ti as well, regardless of the wear characteristics. The strength and lightness of Ti makes it a valuable commodity to the valvetrain, and these are race engines we're talking about right? Dont slap Ti ret. in and expect the car to retain its 100k mile factory warranty. Check them often, and catch problems before they become catastrophic failures.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ICheck them often, and catch problems before they become catastrophic failures.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Checking/resetting valve lash and visually inspecting the valvetrain should be part of your oil change routine, unless you want to be a lazy dumbass.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have seen plenty of Ti retainers wear thin. Some Ti retainers are better than others. There is also the "chipping" problem along the edges of the ret. associated with high lift cams, but this can be remedied with rocker arm modification.

But let me also state, that JDogg is right, IMO. I would go with the Ti as well, regardless of the wear characteristics. The strength and lightness of Ti makes it a valuable commodity to the valvetrain, and these are race engines we're talking about right? Dont slap Ti ret. in and expect the car to retain its 100k mile factory warranty. Check them often, and catch problems before they become catastrophic failures.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you.

Just as I stated earlier, if this is a race car then ti is fine. But most people on don't know how to check the level of oil let alone valve lash or better yet don't know what a retainer is.

For a daily driver and the majority of people on here, I stand by what I said steel retainers. Also, I would add most should not use more than itr cams and valve train.

 

dont mean to hijack, but i have a question that is relevant to this thread...

i have a B16A head in storage with supertech valvesprings and Ti retainers, and stock valves... and toda spec B cams... the cams are grinds, not originals

now i bought the head second hand, it has had the supertech valvetrain and toda cams in for a year before i bought it... and it will probably be 9months to a year untill i fit it to my B18B block... (buying forged bits on a student budget sucks)
the cams have been removed from the head, its just basically the valvetrain that is installed on the head.

my question is - will the retainers still be fine when i fit the head around july next year, or will they weaken whilst the head is sitting in my garage??

thanks,
Rich

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mar778c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just as I stated earlier, if this is a race car then ti is fine. But most people on don't know how to check the level of oil let alone valve lash or better yet don't know what a retainer is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea. Most of the guys/kids/idiots/amoeba/plankton i talk to in the Honda scene are guys building their first engines and they are shooting for 240whp. Walk before you run.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by . r i c h 9 9 0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

my question is - will the retainers still be fine when i fit the head around july next year, or will they weaken whilst the head is sitting in my garage??
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No they will be fine sitting in the garage there not food lol!

however like people are telling you on here you NEED to keep checking those bastards for wear!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yea. Most of the guys/kids/idiots/amoeba/plankton i talk to in the Honda scene are guys building their first engines and they are shooting for 240whp. Walk before you run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

amoeba&gt; LOL

 

What is it exactly that you should look for when visually inspecting the valvetrain?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr_henrik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is it exactly that you should look for when visually inspecting the valvetrain?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Chipping around the edges of the retainer, mostly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yea. Most of the guys/kids/idiots/amoeba/plankton i talk to in the Honda scene are guys building their first engines and they are shooting for 240whp. Walk before you run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was certain my first engine build was going to make over 200whp. Boy, I was wrong.

- Derek

 

good thread, i put supertech springs on stock retainers, with stock b16 cams. engine failure but it was rings. im thinking of redoing it and keeping the head the same with a stage 2 cam....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr.OB*GYN_Rhett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good thread, i put supertech springs on stock retainers, with stock b16 cams. engine failure but it was rings. im thinking of redoing it and keeping the head the same with a stage 2 cam.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, the seat pressure will be to high for a stock retainer with a stage 2 cam. You really need to use a retainer designed for 12 mm or greater lift.

 

oh so retainers have lift tolerances is basically what youre saying&gt;?