poormans_typer69

i got the b18c1 block and the b16a head in the machine shop...but what else do i need to build the poor man's type r...? has any 1 tried this setup..if yea let me kno how it came out...and see if can give me some ideas....

SkoundrelUSA

Its been done many times. Just finished mine up recently.

I hope you put in ITR pistons (at the minimum) because your compression will be quite low with a stock GSR bottom.

k00lt1nt

thers nothing poor about.. suld call it a mini type r.. tired of hearing people call it a poor mans.. cuz the money i spen t buidling mine cost mor than the type r motor

b16-bomber

oki so i hope the money you spent should kill a stock type r motor......i think thats the whole concept of building it in the first place.....

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

You will need ITR pistons. If you are truly going to go at it as a "Poorman", that means you'll leave the cylinders alone (assuming that the bore's aren't out of hone too badly), run some used ITR pistons (WITH NEW RINGS) because you happened to have had easy/cheap access to them. Run the B16 head with ITR cams because they were around or very cheap. Run it with some ITR valvetrain, or ITR outters with portflow inners...
You won't have an LSD though, because that will cost enough money to pull it out of the Poorman's bracket. You'll want to send your throttle body into maxbore.com and have it opened up larger like a ITR TB should be. Find yourself a cheap used ITR manifold, or a blox one. Finally, you'll need a ITR ecu, or else get your P28 ECU or OBD1 P72 ECU chipped to handle the rev's and have the VTEC engagement set at 5700 RPM. BTW, if you are going to stay at 81 mm bore and want some ITR pistons, hit me up. I have some used JDM ITR pistons (more compression). Using a 3 layer gasket without a milled head, it'll give you about 11.1:1 compression as opposed to 10.6:1.

Good luck with your adventure, feel free to hit me up on AIM if you have any questions. Most people on this board are both knowledgable and willing to help.

SkoundrelUSA

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k00lt1nt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thers nothing poor about.. suld call it a mini type r.. tired of hearing people call it a poor mans.. cuz the money i spen t buidling mine cost mor than the type r motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol so true. I'm quite pissed about the $ I have spent just on the shortblock.

VTECth1s

since the b18c5 head has a stock factory port and polish head, i suggest a port and polish and/or mill/bore on the b16 head, itr or upgraded cams and valvetrain for higher compression, then get a itr IM and TB, drop in the ITR pistons which is most important to up the compression as well, or your stock compression on the stock b18c1 block wont do it for you as a "poor man's type-r". Get a chipped obd1 p28 or p72, but i would go with a p28 over a p72 since the b16 head doesnt have the IAB (secondary "butterflies") . And also either keep the gsr or a b16 tranny, and you'll have your self a "poor man's type-r"....GL!


Modified by egg6vtak at 5:12 PM 9/11/2006

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egg6vtak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And also either keep the gsr or a b16 tranny, and you'll have your self a "poor man's type-r"....GL!


Modified by egg6vtak at 5:12 PM 9/11/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

B16 for the same gearing as the 96-97 JDM and USDM ITR's

VTECth1s

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -=Zeqs=- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

B16 for the same gearing as the 96-97 JDM and USDM ITR's </TD></TR></TABLE>

....yah man, miss the b16 they did wonders on streets, but at times annoying on hwy.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poormans_typer69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got the b18c1 block and the b16a head in the machine shop...but what else do i need to build the poor man's type r...? has any 1 tried this setup..if yea let me kno how it came out...and see if can give me some ideas....</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont shy away from the gsr tranny though...you'll just have a tad bit more fun with a b16 on the street IMO.

RagingAngel

There's probably a ton of definitions regarding what a "true" poorman's Type-R powertrain ought to consist of and likely varying degrees.

I think for the "poorest of the poor," you just go with a Blox IM, maxbore TB, valvetrain components of your choice and ITR/CTR cams and call it a day.

Should you choose flat faced valves and install a 2pce headgasket (top layer removed), it should bring you close to the USDM OEM factory 10.6:1 CR on the ITR.

This is all assuming you are paying somebody to do the (most/all) of the work for you. Going into the shortblock isn't particularly tough, but it can get spendy if you're paying for the labor.

But I think most will agree that if you go with a 16A head, you should definitely get USDM ITR pistons - bare minimum.

bogus_ek

i don't know why everyone is thinking itr pistons. in most cases, i think the people that are looking to do this setup are those that have a b16 and are looking to get on a bigger bottom end without all the typical complications of a ls/b20 vtec setup. I say stick with your b16 pistons. if i'm not mistaken, they aren't made any different from itr pistons, plus they will yield a better compression ratio than itr's and you can find them for half the price of itr's. anyway, if you are already starting with a b16, stick with your b16 pistons.

RagingAngel

Well the guy didn't even mention he has B16A pistons to start. He has a B16A head.

ITR pistons benefit from wrist pin oil cooling holes and molybdenum coated skirts. Unfortunately you are mistaken, as there is this difference. How much any one person will benefit from these features is entirely up to their intended usage.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poormans_typer69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got the b18c1 block and the b16a head in the machine shop...</TD></TR></TABLE>

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bogus_ek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't know why everyone is thinking itr pistons. in most cases, i think the people that are looking to do this setup are those that have a b16 and are looking to get on a bigger bottom end without all the typical complications of a ls/b20 vtec setup. I say stick with your b16 pistons. if i'm not mistaken, they aren't made any different from itr pistons, plus they will yield a better compression ratio than itr's and you can find them for half the price of itr's. anyway, if you are already starting with a b16, stick with your b16 pistons. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poormans_typer69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got the <u>b18c1 block</u> and the b16a head in the machine shop...but what else do i need to build the poor man's type r...? has any 1 tried this setup..if yea let me kno how it came out...and see if can give me some ideas....</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does a b18c1 block with a b16a head and 3 layer OEM gasket yield one in terms of compression?

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/temp/pistons.htm

B-series piston comparisons

RagingAngel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -=Zeqs=- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What does a b18c1 block with a b16a head and 3 layer OEM gasket yield one in terms of compression? </TD></TR></TABLE>

A boost happy 9.78:1.

Definitely not what you're after in an NA application. It's lower than the OEM 18C1 to start!

-=Zeqs=-

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RagingAngel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A boost happy 9.78:1.

Definitely not what you're after in an NA application. It's lower than the OEM 18C1 to start! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was trying to see what the new guy with the big swinging dick knew since he stormed into the conversation like he knew everything...

Expletive!

Im putting one together right now..Not building it or anything..just to get the car moving again!

Just to be safe when i put this head on the block a few hours from now..GSR head stunds fine for this? What timing belt are you guys using..and what head gasket?

RagingAngel

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Slaughter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just to be safe when i put this head on the block a few hours from now..GSR head stunds fine for this? What timing belt are you guys using..and what head gasket?</TD></TR></TABLE>

GSR studs are fine, headstuds/headbolt lengths are determined NOT by the head but the block.

Timing belt = stock, headgasket OEM or something equivalent in quality.

bogus_ek

damn... read the post again... plug in b18c1 block, b16 head and p30 or pr3 pistons into any of your compression calculators... it yields a much better and more ideal cr for for a daily street driven NA car. in fact 11.4 with pr3 pistons and 11.6 with p30 pistons. with jdm itr you do get a 11.4, but with usdm you only get 10.8. courtesy of c-speedracing.com i said, if you already have a b16, and are looking to switch over to a b18c block... use your b16 pistons. don't waste the money on itr's... tell me how does that not make sense?

RagingAngel

It doesn't make any sense because he doesn't have any B16 pistons to start.

What part of:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by poormans_typer69 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i got the b18c1 block and the b16a head in the machine shop...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you NOT understand?

He has not B16A pistons. He HAS ONLY the B16A head....and if he does have a 16A block laying around, he didn't say he did.

So we thus recommended that he, since he is building a "poorman's Type-R" - which I gave examples of keeping the bottom end completely STOCK on the B18C1 and to NOT go with the 16A HEAD.....and also keeping the C1 head because he HAS a 16A HEAD (and is thinking of using it) and NOT pistons and keeping the stock 18C1 head will give better compression overall.

By your same reasoning, wouldn't it be even "better" if he kept his C1 head and used a JDM ITR or P30 or PR3 piston then? A Blox intake manifold would negate the whole "ITR manifold flows better than GS-R" issue for this relatively mild build.

Stop citing compression calculators unless you are going to discuss his setup which is a 18C1 with a 16A head.

You do get credit for telling him to bump the compression though.

bogus_ek

I wasn't trying to tell anyone to do anything. a lot of people were recommending ITR pistons. What i said was that in most cases, people who are looking to build one of these setups do so because they have a b16, want a bigger bottom end and have some kind of reservation on going ls or b20 vtec. If so I don't recommend getting ITR's and I say stick your b16 pistons in there. I was wrong to assume the thread starter had a complete b16. In any case, take a look around and figure out how much more $$$ you save by picking up a used set of pr3's or p30's over getting itr's. By quoting compression calculators I was only saying that to replicate the true cr of a ITR you'd have to get jdm itr's or p30, pr3. usdm itr's only get you 10.8...

SkoundrelUSA

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bogus_ek &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> In any case, take a look around and figure out how much more $$$ you save by picking up a used set of pr3's or p30's over getting itr's. By quoting compression calculators I was only saying that to replicate the true cr of a ITR you'd have to get jdm itr's or p30, pr3. usdm itr's only get you 10.8... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its the same price for the most part. New that is.

RS Machine sells OEM replica PR3s and P73-AOs for the same price.

poormans_typer69

WHAT CR WILL I GET IF I PUT ITR PISTONS WITH A SLEEVED BLOCK..? WILL THAT CAUSE A PROBLEM...ALSO IF I AM DOING "POORMANS TYPE-R" WILL I NEED A TYPE-R ECU...HARNESS...AND DO U THINK I SHOULD PUT ITR CAM AND CAMSHAFTS&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;IIGHT EXPERTS TELL ME WHAT U THINK IIGHT...

bogus_ek

sleeved block will not affect your cr... usdm itr's get 10.8 and jdm itr's get 11.4... i wouldn't recommend sleeving your block for a NA car unless you already have cracked sleeves. just a nice bore and hone should do. remember if you do decide to sleeve, you will have to retain the 81mm bore to use the pistons you mentioned... anything bigger will require aftermarket pistons. getting itr camshafts are a good idea, but depending on how much you're finding them for, you might be able to get a better bang for the $$$ picking other camshafts up, don't get the itr cam gears they aren't adjustable anyway, so look for a good aftermarket one.

poormans_typer69

IIGHT SO SHOULD I USE OR DO I HAVE TO USE TYPE-R ECU W/THAT OR CAN I USED A CHIPPED GSR ECU...THE REASON IM SLEEVIN MY B18C1 BLOCK IS CUZ IT GOT A SMALL SCRATCH....BUT IM KEEPIN MY B16A2 HEAD ALONE UNTILL I GET THE ITR PISTONS AND CAMSHAFTS.....