b20vtech

my gears are off like that too, head was resurface a little. runs and idle fine, like a champ!!

honda_ef9

also have same thing with mine, will see what happens. you cant gain a half tooth no where without degreeing

Combustion Contraption

Yes, you can, with belt tension.

honda_ef9

Explain please

Combustion Contraption

I used to work as a dealership mechanic. I have seen plenty of times where guys swore it was off 1/2 a tooth to a tooth no matter what they did. Thats true, no matter what they did, because they werent doing it right. Getting the stuff to line up properly takes some finesse. Just because you have a milled head doesnt mean they should nt line up. Honda has a spec that every head can be milled up to, do you see anywhere in the service manual that says the marks wont line up anymore? Sure, if you mill the thing .080 then you will have issues, but any setup with a .080 milled head needs to be degree'd in anyway, so it should not matter.

honda_ef9

you say "finesse" at least tell us the method you used to "finesse" it into place. Im not talking anykind of **** but whats so hard about a little explaning, you know lending a helping hand to the less fortunate that dont have this "finesse" you speak of?

Combustion Contraption

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by honda_ef9 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you say "finesse" at least tell us the method you used to "finesse" it into place. Im not talking anykind of **** but whats so hard about a little explaning, you know lending a helping hand to the less fortunate that dont have this "finesse" you speak of?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some things are very difficult to explain through words on the internet. If you have some basic mechanical skills, keep trying, maybe using different methods until you can get them to line up. Its not a manufacturing defect, its not the fact that its a LS/Vtec, its the fact that you havent figured out how to finesse them into lining up perfectly yet. Not trying to be an *******, but it will be quite difficult for someone to come on here and give you a magic answer as to how to do it. Sometimes , when things like belt tension and moving parts are involved, it gets a bit tricky. Same thing as trying to explain how to port to people over the internet. It doesnt work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

honda_ef9

Combustion Contraption

One I can think of off the top of my head that I had to do before is, is was on a B series of some sort, and the exh kept moving a tooth whenever I slipped the belt on. The tension of the belt was great enough that it pulled the cam. So I just set it one tooth back and slipped it on.

Another one was that you could line everything up perfect but not have enough tension so that when you started to rotate the engine, the slack wouldnt pick up until you were already off 1/2 - 1 tooth. The solution for this was to set the cams slightly "off" so that by the time belt tension started picking up and after 1 full rotation of the motor, everything would line up great.

93-lsvtec-eh2

i do the same thing you do excpet i start with the crank i set it a little off on the bottom so when i pull up to put tension on the belt and slide it on the gears all the slack it taken up and it lines the mark on the crank up. then it slides right on the cam gears with no problem or i hook it on the intake gear and turn it striaght up to get the slack out

mouab18c1

iTrader: (5)

what you should try doing is set tdc on crank pulley off about almost half an inch...and the cam gears about a tooth off from each other...hard to explain on the net but...i say that because when you turn the crank pulley to get the timing belt tight...the marks would line up better then if u set everything on tdc...cuz the belt is loose before you tighten it..so with it off a little..when you turn the crank pulley and the belt tightens up...thats when the cam gears will start to rotate with the crank....i hope you understand me but if you know what you are doing then u would understand me....again....when u set everything on tdc and u turn the crank pulley...the belt will tighten up but then the tdc mark on the crank pulley would be off already before the cams even start to line up....again...its hard to explain but in person i would be able to show you...i learned it by doing my hella times..ahahah

Combustion Contraption

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mouab18c1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its hard to explain but in person i would be able to show you...i learned it by doing my hella times..ahahah</TD></TR></TABLE>

And I bet the first time you did it , after trying a bunch of times you swore up and down it was impossible and that something was wrong, right? Then you spend a little time working stuff into position and there she goes.

mouab18c1

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And I bet the first time you did it , after trying a bunch of times you swore up and down it was impossible and that something was wrong, right? Then you spend a little time working stuff into position and there she goes. </TD></TR></TABLE>

for realz...it all takes patients....things will fall into play once things are done right

Thrizzle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Thrizzle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Coat hanger trick, exh cam trick.. every has their own method that you learn w/ experience. </TD></TR></TABLE>

honda_ef9

well ive done this many times now with no luck, doing exactly what you all told me to do. What is the coat hanger trick? And one guy said previously that you could line the cams up at tdc, loosen the bolts on adj. cam gears and spin the crank to tdc then tighten up bolts on gears? i dunno im stuck on this **** just looking for a solution

pootie.teng

i don't think it is possible. its not like you can magically gain half a tooth of belt or lose it to make them line up. i gave up on mine after a million tries even had all my buddies try and nothing. gave up. just degree the cams in and you should be fine, thats what i'm going to do before my next dyno tune.

BUT if you ever find or learn how to fix the problem, man. Let me know.

00b18b

any updates? Someone needs post up a how to..I'm getting frustrated with this.

92integraVTECgsr

OMG!! Come on now kids..

I just put the timing belt on my brand new LS/VTEC and ALL the marks line up.

Took me 2 tries. The first try the crank gear moved, YES I said the crank gear moved from the tension on the belt.

Step 1 - Line up all the marks
Step 2 - make sure the timing belt tensioner bolt is loose
Step 3 - Take the belt and start on the crank pulley
Step 4 - Keep the belt tight as possible WITHOUT moving the crank pulley, place the belt around the timing belt tensioner and then around the water pump
Step 5 - KEEP a VERY CLOSE eye on the crank pulley and KEEP the BELT TIGHT and put the belt over the exhaust cam, keeping everything tight, then SQUEEZE the rest of the belt over the intake cam.
Step 6 - Check all the marks (crank and cam gears)
Step 7 - Tighten the tensioner bolt
Step 8 - Rotate the crank counter clockwise 5-6 turns
Step 9 - Loose the Timing Belt Tensioner BOLT 1/2 turn (180 degrees)
Step 10 - Turn the crank counter clockwise 3 gears on the crank gear
Step 11 - Tighten the timing belt tensioner bolt

DONE!!!! Now if you can do it, then you shouldn't be doing this job. It is easy if you have patience and know what you are doing.

egb18c5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92integraVTECgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Step 10 - Turn the crank counter clockwise 3 gears on the crank gear</TD></TR></TABLE>

when u say turn the crank 3 gears, did u meant to turn the crank 3 tooths?

92integraVTECgsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egb18c5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when u say turn the crank 3 gears, did u meant to turn the crank 3 tooths?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ya sorry.

Combustion Contraption

Let me also say this...

If you are using aftermarket components (crankshaft, camshafts, cam gears) there will times when the marks will be very difficult to line up. However, the marks become meaningless if you have the capabilities to ascertain TRUE tdc and cam timing events.

I am just finishing up an 85x95 with an EAGLE crank, in which the keyway on the crankshaft was cut advanced a few degree's. The marks will line up, if I want them to, but the valve events would never truly be "dead on" with the position of the crank the way it was. Degree'ing cams and finding true TDC is truly not as hard as some make it out to be. Patience and dillgance.

stealth50k

Just turn the camshaft screw like if you were unscrewing it but not too hard since that would unscrew it. Might have too much slack. It probably is already aligned but you just don't know it lol. Just measure it with the timing light and see how it does. I had the same problem before and but then i found out i had a lot of slack so i made sure it was tight and it was ok after all.

92integraVTECgsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealth50k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just turn the camshaft screw like if you were unscrewing it but not too hard since that would unscrew it. Might have too much slack. It probably is already aligned but you just don't know it lol. Just measure it with the timing light and see how it does. I had the same problem before and but then i found out i had a lot of slack so i made sure it was tight and it was ok after all. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that doesn't make any sense.

ToeJam

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pootie.teng &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't think it is possible. its not like you can magically gain half a tooth of belt or lose it to make them line up. i gave up on mine after a million tries even had all my buddies try and nothing. gave up. just degree the cams in and you should be fine, thats what i'm going to do before my next dyno tune.

BUT if you ever find or learn how to fix the problem, man. Let me know.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Maybe its the differences in deck height between the b18c and b18b blocks?

Here’s a thought.. The belt tensioner adds tension it does NOT make a belt shorter/smaller...

stealth50k

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92integraVTECgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that doesn't make any sense. </TD></TR></TABLE>

like if your tensioner is not that great it will give you alittle more slack and you gotta tighten the belt from the water pump to the intake camshaft more since usually theres extra slack there.