2point6

Ok, I am having an issue I cannot figure out yet... I have a 90 Accord with H22.

When I am on the starting line and I rev over say, 4000 RPM and wait for the lights to drop, my car pulls foreward. If I try to lauch at a higher RPM, the car pulls foreward harder.

I was running an Exedy stage 2 H22 clutch without any creeping issues, but on my 8th pass the pedal stuck on the floor and I was unable to shift. Fearing a broken clutch, I called Bisi and ordered a Action clutch with a dual diaphram. When I removed the Exedy, I found no issues with the clutch itself, so I replaced the master and slave cylinders with brand new factory parts. I decided to give the Action clutch a go anyway, but now I am experiencing hard shifting into gears (when it goes into them) and really bad creeping. I called Bisi, to ask him and he thought the hydro system was blead improperly, so I went back and did the process again. Shifting was slightly better, but in the upper RPM's I might as well forget trying. I also adjusted the pedal, which had no affect unless the deflection was 2" or more. The slave cylinder appears to be fully opening, So I don't have any explanation why it seems the clutch is not fully disengaging.

I have a race tommorow in PHX that I might miss if I cannot get the system to work, so I appreciate any help and suggestions.

I have called Bisi, but I know he is really tied up, so any expert advise beyond a line lock is what I am looking for.

There is one thing I am unsure of and that is what appears to be a damper of some sort inline with the clutch system. It is not on Civics, but the Accord and Preludes both have them. Does anyone know what this part is?

2point6

I removed the dampener that I metioned above and re-bled the system. Still, the car lurches foreward at over 6K RPM. Even with the e-brake pulled, the car jumps. The clutch is engaging in the upper RPMs for some reason.

Turbogixxer

Make sure the master clutch cylinder is adjusted right.

2point6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbogixxer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Make sure the master clutch cylinder is adjusted right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Other than adjusting the pedal, how do you suggest this is done?

alterdcreations

expletive that....it's time for a twin disk

2point6

Alright... looks like I am going to miss this race since I can't get it figured out, so here is where I stand: With the e-brake on, the car sits in place just fine until it gets to aproximately 6500 RPM, then it is like the clutch partially engages. If I hold the RPMs at that point the car won't move if the e-bake is pulled. If I rev it higher, the car is going foreward, dragging the wheels... the clutch engages. The slave cylinder does not move. It is as far out as it can go.

5w20

interesting problem

2ltrtodd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">expletive that....it's time for a 5.0L </TD></TR></TABLE>

alterdcreations

how much play do you have between the slave cylinder and the clutch pedal.
if you can stand by the slave cylinder while one of your partners sits in the car have him slowly start to depress the clutch. when you notice the slave start to move then see how much the clutch pedal is depressed. it should move instantly.
or......I DONT RECOMMED THIS......
have your buddie step on the clutch . while the clutch is depressed you need to go to the slave cylinder and hold it open by sticking the fat part of the ratchet head in a position that keeps the pressure off of the slave while the clutch is disengauge.
then tell your buddie to release the pedal and pull it up with his hand.
now your slave cylinder will have more pressure behind it and it will push the clutch release fork alittle further hopefully solving your problem.....but dont push out your thrust bearings.....

2point6

The release fork is moving as far as it can go. It does engage instantly. The problem is acting like a weak pressure plate diaphram. I talked to Bisi about this before, but the manufacturer claims a weak diaphram is impossible do to the use of 2 diaphams in this application. I am at a loss...

alterdcreations

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The release fork is moving as far as it can go. It does engage instantly. The problem is acting like a weak pressure plate diaphram. I talked to Bisi about this before, but the manufacturer claims a weak diaphram is impossible do to the use of 2 diaphams in this application. I am at a loss... </TD></TR></TABLE>

do you mean that the fork stops moving because the slave cylinder is maxed out?

alterdcreations

you can increase the slave cylinders reach by atleast a 1/4" - 1/2" and that interm will push out the fork a extra 1/4" -1/2".

2point6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alterdcreations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can increase the slave cylinders reach by atleast a 1/4" - 1/2" and that interm will push out the fork a extra 1/4" -1/2". </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, I have already tried that trick... The fork is as far as it can go. I am wondering if it is going too far, but I have tried everything I know to do without changing the clutch.

alterdcreations

all clutches are not created equal. sorry to hear that you are not going to the races tommorrow...that sucks
twin disk

98vtec

scott,

I am running the action clutch and experienced these same things before i spent some time bleeding the system and adjusting the master cylinder rod.

What i have found to be the most effective and allow for the smoothest gear selections is to adjust the master cylinder to engage the clutch about 3/4-1/2 of the way off the floor. This way when you push in the clutch, you are given a bigger window to get the transmission into gear before the pressure plate grabs the clutch pads again.

After adjusting my master cylinder and properly bleeding it, full throttle shifting at 8500 rpm is no longer ANY problem at all. And the overall feel of the car completely changed for the better.

Blake

92cxturbo

I thought for sure you'd be running a twin in that beast. my action dd slipped at 400hp. switched to a exedy twin disc, what a difference! bolt it on and forget about your problems


Modified by 92cxturbo at 8:54 PM 10/20/2007

acydphryck

use duct tape to hold down the e-brake release ****. when waiting on the starting line, hold it up. when light turns green, release the e-brake and floor it!!!

2point6

still no solution to this.

Chris Tune

brand new clutch? havent you beat on it just a little bit at least? the splines in the main shaft and the hub in a brand new disk usually have a little rough operation at first. Brand new disks depending on the condition of the main shaft etc will have a very "hard" fitment at first, you can at least take away some of it by sliding the disk(should be a little hard at first) in the main with some grease for a while.

2point6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">brand new clutch? havent you beat on it just a little bit at least? the splines in the main shaft and the hub in a brand new disk usually have a little rough operation at first. Brand new disks depending on the condition of the main shaft etc will have a very "hard" fitment at first, you can at least take away some of it by sliding the disk(should be a little hard at first) in the main with some grease for a while. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought about that as well, so I put some street miles on the car for break-in. Even after pulling the trans out of the car for inspection I was unable to find any visible problem. The only issue I can think of is the "step" on the flywheel being incorrect. I added the flywheel at the same time.

PPLH8R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The only issue I can think of is the "step" on the flywheel being incorrect. I added the flywheel at the same time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is what I was going to recommend. If you have exhausted all other options then there is a chance that the flywheel could be your problem. As you stated if the flywheel "step" is off enough you could experience the problem you are having. Iam sure that by now you have adjusted and bled the system properly. If the mounting surface of the diaphram is too low then the clutch could be engaged even when you push the pedal in all the way.
On a side note.
Did you get to go out to the race at Speedworld?. My buddy was supposed to attend but he had some issues with his car too.

2point6

No resolution to this as of yet. We Have even switched to a Competition Clutch twin disc. We have used 3 different transmissions, 4 different clutches, 2 different cars (same engine), replced the entire hydro system, 3 different flywheels, and adjusted about everything you can think of. The higher the rpms go, the harder the car moves foreward. We thought it was a crank walk issue but that isn't the case.

Any suggestions besides H2B are welcome.

PyroProblem

Hey Scott, sorry to hear about your issues...
Just a thought, what type of fluid are you using?
Does it start to engage at the same pedal height as before your problems started?

Kinda sounds like the pedal assy itself may be causing it.
What could cause the pedal to drop and stay if your pressure plate was good and exerting sufficient force to push the pedal back? (your 8th pass)
Nothing jammed anywhere in the pedal assy?
Hmmmmm...
-Nik