negusjuda

as the title states i have been looking at switching from my tuner 2 cams to buddy club spec 3+ cams. reason being i would like more bottom end and mid range power and not have to rev to the moon to reach peak power. my hp goal was only 200 whp when i built this motor.

the motor is

b20z bottom end with eagle rods and je 10.5:1 compression pistons
stock gsr head milled about .010 at best
aebs intake mani
65mm tb
rc 370 cc injectors
hytech rep small tube header
3 inch exhaust

compression test is around 235-240 (tested it with 3 diffrent testers) which with the milling of the head and the pistons being rated 10.5:1 with a b16 head and im running a gsr head on the zeal comp calculator my compression is around 11:1. my question is would i be better off with the buddy club spec 3 cams or leave my tuner stage 2 cams

Uncle Dave

I took my B20Vtec powered EG to a driver training centre and came home very disappointed with the low RPM power as I was matched for times by B16a EK's we even swapped cars to see if it was me and no same result.My B20 has STD pistons with a very good PR3 head and fitted with M22x cams and a close ratio gearbox and from 5000rpm on its brillant with its power and I am very happy with it but as a DD and low speed trackcar its not good.I have been talking with ALL MOTOR about this and we think there is a need for some sort of cam profile to suit the lower comp B20 builds that are being done that use 4.4 final drive gearbox's.If you have the choice of the Tuner2 or the BC3+ I would use the BC3+ cams.

DDTECH

Dave is right.. believe it not, its not always the biggest set of cams that make power, more or less the correct combo of intake and exhaust cam.

If its out of those two, the BCIII+'s should do fine.. but if you want to go a different route, pm me, i'll be happy to make something alittle bit different and should provide you with excellent low/midrange without having to rev to the moon for power.

Alot of people run the std low comp b20vtecs and put big *** cams in there.. yes, they make power but it isn't what you want. I'm working on something with uncle dave to actually be a good street cam for these low compression motors.. more or less.

negusjuda

yea the car pulls nice, but the real power is from 6k rpm on, im just not very comfortable with revving much past 8k i was also wondering if a itr tranny would make a big diffrence my gsr tranny 1st and second gears just dont cut it

DDTECH

You're bottom end is more then compatible of handling revs.. what are you concerned about..?
If you had the power carry to 9k+, i dont see any problem why you aren't reving that high anyway.

PyroProblem

So you want cams that have better "low cam" power?
Something with some larger primary lobes?
Have you thought about a manifold with longer runners to help midrange? (PerformerX?)

negusjuda

i haven't thought about the performer x and as far as revving to 9k i doubt i will make power that high i rev to 8400 now i guess my whole point is which cam would be best suited for my build. the motor also still has to be dyno tuned its only been street tuned so that still has to be done

PyroProblem

Wait until you actually get tuned on a dyno before switching cams. You may find out you don't have enough timing on the low cam which will greatly impact your hp/tq readings...
You might gain another 15-20 hp by having the ignition timing set properly (finding MBT on a dyno).

Uncle Dave

I have tried these manifolds
STD P30
Cut open and ported P30
STD ITR P73
Cut open and Ported ITR P73

I have also used STD TB 64mm+68+70 spent HRS on the dyno playing with cams and intake length and once you go bigger than ITR intake cam you lose LOW END torque.This is something I have spoken to ALL MOTOR alot about this and we now have an engine in my roadcar just for testing this type of setup where guys want lowend torque with strong mid range without spending money on gearbox or final drive ratio's.

I have just ordered a Performer X intake manifold as well

negusjuda

Yea I plan on it just figure I'd get opinions first I know cam and ignition timing needs to be tuned also when vtec is engaged it dips really rich then leans back out to about 13.2 around 6k rpms Til fuel cut so the tune def needs some work

cibao2ner

skunk2 pro1..same vtec as stg2 but with bigger primarys...they made 10ftlbs more torque the buddy club spec 4s which have bigger than stock primarys...

negusjuda

i also plan on getting a itr tranny in the near future and as far as pro1 i would but i dont know if my portfow springs will hold up to pro 1 and i dont have anyone to degree them for me

Uncle Dave

Where did it make more torque and in what compression and size engine.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

portflows will work with the Pro1 Cams. I'm already a fan

mouab18c1

iTrader: (5)

I am actually looking to trade my BC3+ cams for some Tuner 2's. Has less then 1000miles. PM me if you're interested in trading.

egb18c5

pro1's should suit this motor but of course, AM can always hook you up something.

negusjuda

id love to run pro1 but i dont know how to degree them and will oem itr retaineers hold up to pro1 if i knew how to degree cams and if i knew itr retaineers where ok with the pro1 i would of went with them instead of the tuner 2

Uncle Dave

So to the OP you are looking for more torque on the low cam?

negusjuda

well i wanted a cam that i didnt have to rev to high to reach peak power but still make around the 200 whp range. my gsr tranny may also be one of the things im not liking about the car, 1st and 2nd gears suck on the gsr. i think what i may end up doing is getting the car dyno tuned first get it all smooth out move cam gears around and play with timing first to see what i get then switch to a itr tranny if i can find one in good shape or get a b16 tranny. if all else fails then i will get a itr final drive and 1st and second gears

negusjuda

although im revving to around 8400 rpm 8500 would be max that i rev to which i don't think my motor will make much more power above that due to my bolt ons i guess the biggest thing is i didn't wanna blow the motor from revving to high

Uncle Dave

Do you have a CAI or SRI,I found with the B20 with comp under 11 to 1 that the SRI works best we sat on the dyno for a whole day playing with this,I am going to fit 2000 ITR/CTR cams back into my engine to get that LOW CAM torque back.

cibao2ner

on the faqs there a dyno of buddy club 4s and pro1s done by tbone..no pics anymore but it made like 10ft more than bc4 in the midrange and bc4s made like hp more on top..

what is it about itr cams that makes so much low end? i notice all 3 lobes on itr cams are diferent size most after market companys make both primarys the same size..could that be it? the diff size primarys promote swirl in the cylinder and make more power..

DDTECH

Thats only recently.. Toda was originally doing that before skunk2 decided they were going to.

The tuner series cams, buddy club, brian crower, crower, all these cams follow the honda profile line up, 1 small primary, 1 decently sized primary, then a vtec lobe.

The pro series does not have two of the same size primaries, they simple have a big one, and a med one,.. Toda, i believe the toda's Ds have two big primaries.
I know that my cams offer "2" big primaries.. Also have found that the low end and midrange compared to other cams that have one big primary/one stockish sized or two med sized primaries is better. If a motor flows enough air down low it will absolutely fly when a correctly designed cam.. Most people forget about low / mid range in a street car..or even when you're falling back into your power band.

Reving higher to take advantage of a cams power range isn't bad. This mild comp b20vtec is built and is fine to do so, The OP seems like he's alittle scaried of revs, but he has no reason to be. With that said, if you are looking for more low / mid range you'll want to do alittle more research on how well your actual motor flows in pre vtec rpms..

Uncle Dave

The problem is most aftermarket cams they need compression to use the full benefits of them along with getting the complete COMBINATION right which includes gearing to suit the cars weight.A B20 in a light car is with tall gearing is not really a problem at lets say 2000 to 6000rpm and this is an area most cam designers forget to play with and my own B20 makes great power above 6000 and most guys would be happy but I need less up there and more below that RPM.

negusjuda

to be honest im not even sure exactly what my compression is i do know although zeal auto works calculator is a estimate but when i punched in my motors specs it was at 11.2:1 now my compression test when i did it was between 235-240 psi now im not sure what 235-240 psi would be i would say its pretty darn close to 11:1 if not 11:1