autox19

no YO! in this world. B16A with generic header, odb1 ECU and Dizzy, runs fine until it hits vtec, then it seems to be rough (can shoot video later if needed). checked plugs, (running NGK platninum) didnt have NGT wires, saw posts saying I should get those. on order. tuned with crome, went back to the stock tune and has same issue. Although the stock seems to run VERY lean (17+ afr). vtec is set to come in at ~5300 rpm. forgot some important info. engine ran awesome when pulled from a civic. but since then, 8+ years ago. it ran into spun bearings, so I replaced the bottom end with a known good bottom end, looked and stock pistons are in both. and Head gasket replacement chasing a overheating issue (OEM replacement) The first time the car was run it didnt have umpgh and ran cruddy with vtec. so "what was changed" was alot.

I googled like crazy and most I see is plugs and wires, could it really be that simple?

Odie
Fiat X19 B16

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yes.anything ignition related. Change that cap and rotor also

autox19

Should those be oem as well?
odie

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The cap and rotor don't HAVE to be OEM, but it's never a bad idea

autox19

Checked compression this morning in Hope I would see a bad cylinder. Nope 173ish across all 4

odie

JRCivic1

Odie,

Things to check:

1) Continuity between A4 and D6 at the ECU and the VTEC solenoid and pressure switch respectively.
2) Try again with a known good ECU.
3) Oil volume. Check to make sure the oil level is full and the VTEC screen is clean.
4) Assuming the cylinder head is stock and has never been opened up or disassembled... you can rule out a missing dowel pin in a rocker arm allowing the loss of oil volume to lock up the rocker system. Otherwise, this is a possibility.
5) Low oil pressure... nobody wants to admit this one because it means a major rebuild. Worn main bearings allow too much volume to bleed off and this damage will only get worse. Chances are good there will be signs of rod bearing damage as well. The oil pump can also be suspect.
6) Now that we have the bad news out of the way... one cam being even a SINGLE tooth out of mechanical time will seem to run fine at idle and lower rpm, but when you cross over into VTEC, the engine struggles, pops and sputters. So, check your mechanical timing. Especially if you replaced the timing belt or did any routine maintenance that required removal of the timing belt.

autox19

Things to check:

1) Continuity between A4 and D6 at the ECU and the VTEC solenoid and pressure switch respectively. Check. no pressure switch, jumped over in the rywire harness.
2) Try again with a known good ECU. Can this be any ODB1 ECU?
3) Oil volume. Check to make sure the oil level is full and the VTEC screen is clean. Oil Volume is slightly high. Havent gotten to the screen yet.
4) Assuming the cylinder head is stock and has never been opened up or disassembled... you can rule out a missing dowel pin in a rocker arm allowing the loss of oil volume to lock up the rocker system. Otherwise, this is a possibility. Head gasket was replaced. Although I made sure I checked for the pin, I can always recheck as it isnt a big pain to get to.
5) Low oil pressure... nobody wants to admit this one because it means a major rebuild. Worn main bearings allow too much volume to bleed off and this damage will only get worse. Chances are good there will be signs of rod bearing damage as well. The oil pump can also be suspect. Oil pressure is around 75 PSI at 5000 RPM
6) Now that we have the bad news out of the way... one cam being even a SINGLE tooth out of mechanical time will seem to run fine at idle and lower rpm, but when you cross over into VTEC, the engine struggles, pops and sputters. So, check your mechanical timing. Especially if you replaced the timing belt or did any routine maintenance that required removal of the timing belt. Earlier, Belt was off by a tooth, ran like crap. I can recheck to see if it is still on and post a picture. what you describe is EXACTLY what it is like. pops and sputters. Before I swapped it, it pulled like mad (compared to the low lobe) when it hit vtec, not it seem to be about the same just a little louder.

Thanks for the help!!

Odie
Fiat X19 B16

autox19

I have to admit, I am a bad poster. I broke my own cardinal rule of making sure all facts are in. "I didnt change anything...... except.. " I just thought about another thing that was changed. I thought about it with the timing comment. When I did the head gasket, I notices one of the adjustable cam gears was not tight. as it was keyed in, the adjustable part was tight. I could wiggle the cam gear and the cam stayed put. I swapped back to the stock gears. one of those was actually loose! I ended up using one adjustable and one stock. It could be possible that the adjustable ones were actually adjusted. when we took the head off it did appear to have been resurfaced and it is possible that the deck was too. I am going to look up how to check for the preciseness of the cam gear according to the cam.

Odie

autox19

Up is what i think straight up and down


Straight edge while cam pointers are pointed towards each other. Appears to be one tooth towards the back.
Ok. Still trying to figure out why it runs like *** in vtec. I decided to put in new gaskets for the vtec solenoid and for the dowel under the cam cap. Figured it wouldn't hurt. While I was at it I would double check my timing. Glad I did as the belt had something chewing away at it! Anyway. When i lined up the "up" to be in the center of the cam it looked like I was off by 1 tooth on each cam. (See picture) when I lined up the pointers to each other it looks like the "up" for each cam is 1 tooth counterclockwise. (See video) when I used a straight line from the bottom to the cambolt to the "up" it also appears to be off. Also the electrical timing is almost all the way clockwise as you are looking at the dizzy to get to 16 degrees.
thoughts?

JRCivic1

The "UP" casting indicator is not LITERAL, but in fact a general orientation. The key is that your cam gear TDC marks (you have chalked/painted them white) need to fall into one line parallel to the top edge of the cylinder head. At the same time, you would need to rotate the crankshaft to the white TDC mark to align with the pointer on the outer lower timing cover. Verifying the proper mechanical timing takes this variable out of the equation. The fact that you have stated that your distributor is rotated fully one way suggests that you have a mechanical inconsistency.

JRCivic1

You need to figure out what is marking up your timing belt... maybe a bolt trapped at the bottom of the lower timing belt cover ??? That belt won't last long with that damage.

autox19

Yeah. Not driving it until the new belt is on. Part that sucks is this engine compartment is tighter than a honda so taking the engine mount off to replace the belt isnt was easy. Oh well. Also going to put full covers back on after.

The clocking of the dizzy concerned me as well. But the arrows say up and those 2 pointers are level.

odie

JRCivic1

autox19

Good point on the cover. I actually misplaced the top pieces. So I might be stuck in holding until I buy new ones.
The pulley is new so the markers are clear. But I double checked the tdc mark with the screwdriver in the cylinder method just to make sure. It is dead on.

thanks for the help

odie

autox19

Ok.so been awhile. Here we go. Same issue. Hits vtec and misses. What has been checked
static timing (replaced belt)
dizzy timing
plugs and wires with ngt
vtec gaskets
vtec pin
iacv gaskets and cleaned screen (wasnt really dirty but cleaned anyway)
oil pressure is about 75 psi when going into vtec
can hear vtec engage
sprayed carb clean all over and no vacuum leaks.
no cel

running out of ideas. Will try to shoot video tomorrow

odie

JRCivic1

In the first pic you posted on July 23, the exhaust camshaft is retarded one tooth assuming that the crank pulley is sitting at (or really close to) TDC.

autox19

Yes. That was before I replaced the belt. Now it is square on. With intake at 9 o'clock Nd exhaust at 3 o'clock both pointing to each other level with head.

odie

2x0

Could be a mechanical issue with the head. Checked valve lash?

autox19

I have not. Guess it is time for me to learn how to do that! Also going to check fuel filter. A friend pointed out an 8 year project on a 40 year old car might have crud in the tank

odie

autox19

So found something that is a problem. Hopefully it is linked to my high rpm miss issues. When I touch the TPS sensor, the voltage jumps around. I have a new tps on the way.

odie

autox19

Here we go. About to take insurance off of it and be done for the summer season. Now I have a vtec issue. I replaced the TPS as it was fluctuating when I tapped on it. after I calibrated it I took it for a test drive. CEL.. ugh. 20 and 21. Before I go into these, I want to say I think it is my ECU. Why? because I have been fighting wierd stuff ever since I put this engine in.. the latest was with code 20, ELD. I use crome and I have ELD disabled yet it pops up. on the 21, I put power to the solenoid and click! wait 2 seconds, reapply CLICK!. so that seems fine.
Complete frustration. so I am going to budget in an new ECU, either neptune or s300. I dont have another ECU to even test it.

Odie

autox19

Yup. It's the ECU causing at least part of the issues. How do I know? Check out ic14

Odie

JRCivic1

Yeah, that looks kind of broken. VTEC may not work very well like that.

autox19

Ok. So i bought a brand new (refurbished) ecu with a new s300. Loaded the base p30 and i have an intermittent miss under load, just like the old ecu. I wasnt thinking it was wholey the ecu but after fixing the vtec transistor and still having the issue i wanted the ecu out of the equasion.
Not sure really where to go now. Sprayed carb clean all over and cant find a vacuum leak. New plugs and wires. Head gasket less than 50 miles ago. Ran great after the headgasket. Then started runnin rough and found the cam pully was loose. Also a weird wear mark down the center so i replaced the belt. Ran good except had a miss under vtec. Now it is all over when under load

About to just order a new/used jdm ugh

Odie

K7-1Ktrevor

Misfires in my expierience are 9/10 ignition system related.

Think of spark as the suspension for your tune, a shot suspension will make even mostly smooth roads ride like crap, weak spark will show any flaws in the tune, a really weak spark will have misfires under even slightly lean conditions or too rich, a good strong spark will run smooth even if your way rich or way lean. I would check all basic tune up stuff if you haven't yet, make sure the cap and rotor is clean dry and free of build up, take a look at your plugs close up, they can tell you allot about possibly what's going on. Also make sure your ht leads are in good shape and try another set if you have access to them.