Allmotor worked S2000 Endyn head (NHRA World Record holding)
10-15-2008, 01:36 PM
#101
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Re: (DonF)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do remember some guy in Texas saying the B16 Honda had the perfect rod ratio of 1.73-1. I forget who that was.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<<<< *spits soda all over keyboard* LOL
<<<< *spits soda all over keyboard* LOL
10-15-2008, 02:53 PM
#102
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Re: (Justin Jones)
...and I stand by that today for any engines required to make power over a large (non stratispheric) rpm range. I recall that Duckworth also "liked" 1.75-1 ratios in his day.
We were to reduce piston and upper-end rod mass by over 100grams with the long rods...and that's the only reason we did it. I might mention that port (and manifold runner) size had to be reduced considerably to make it work....even with an engine where we didn't begin loading until 8500rpm on the dyno.
At any rate, at least this has given a few of you something to think about, and that's a good thing as we prepare to enter Barry's world...right Don?
We were to reduce piston and upper-end rod mass by over 100grams with the long rods...and that's the only reason we did it. I might mention that port (and manifold runner) size had to be reduced considerably to make it work....even with an engine where we didn't begin loading until 8500rpm on the dyno.
At any rate, at least this has given a few of you something to think about, and that's a good thing as we prepare to enter Barry's world...right Don?
10-15-2008, 03:19 PM
#103
Member
Re: (ENDYN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ENDYN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...and I stand by that today for any engines required to make power over a large (non stratispheric) rpm range. I recall that Duckworth also "liked" 1.75-1 ratios in his day.
We were to reduce piston and upper-end rod mass by over 100grams with the long rods...and that's the only reason we did it. I might mention that port (and manifold runner) size had to be reduced considerably to make it work....even with an engine where we didn't begin loading until 8500rpm on the dyno.
At any rate, at least this has given a few of you something to think about, and that's a good thing as we prepare to enter Barry's world...right Don?</TD></TR></TABLE>I hope not. Duckworth and Costin had larger numbers, still got some old stuff here. It was all designed for a rev range, but you knew
that. I still do know how you are getting 23-1 to work on VP anything.
We were to reduce piston and upper-end rod mass by over 100grams with the long rods...and that's the only reason we did it. I might mention that port (and manifold runner) size had to be reduced considerably to make it work....even with an engine where we didn't begin loading until 8500rpm on the dyno.
At any rate, at least this has given a few of you something to think about, and that's a good thing as we prepare to enter Barry's world...right Don?</TD></TR></TABLE>I hope not. Duckworth and Costin had larger numbers, still got some old stuff here. It was all designed for a rev range, but you knew
that. I still do know how you are getting 23-1 to work on VP anything.
10-15-2008, 03:42 PM
#104
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Re: (ENDYN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ENDYN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We were to reduce piston and upper-end rod mass by over 100grams with the long rods</TD></TR></TABLE>
Goddamn it, that quote really makes me wish you still made custom D series pistons... God's way of punishing me for going to college and mothballing my engine was letting you stop making custom D series pistons.
Goddamn it, that quote really makes me wish you still made custom D series pistons... God's way of punishing me for going to college and mothballing my engine was letting you stop making custom D series pistons.
10-16-2008, 02:55 AM
#106
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Re: (ENDYN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ENDYN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...over 11,500 rpm....
... 17-1CR,
...C16 fuel, </TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course, I have no idea what's going on. But I can tell you're crazy. :-p
... 17-1CR,
...C16 fuel, </TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course, I have no idea what's going on. But I can tell you're crazy. :-p
10-16-2008, 11:21 AM
#109
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Of course, I have no idea what's going on. But I can tell you're crazy. :-p</TD></TR></TABLE> Not that unusual. How many of these
do I need?
Of course, I have no idea what's going on. But I can tell you're crazy. :-p</TD></TR></TABLE> Not that unusual. How many of these
do I need?
10-17-2008, 03:25 AM
#110
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Re: (alex86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alex86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For those that don't know "Costin and Duckworth" = Cosworth.</TD></TR></TABLE>
approached them many years ago to a b head for me, got a big simple answer NO, became quite evident you had to be an insider or very close of friend of someone there to even get spoken to
oh well, have friend who does all my work now and im more than happy, beleive he knows larry well and speaks highly of you
approached them many years ago to a b head for me, got a big simple answer NO, became quite evident you had to be an insider or very close of friend of someone there to even get spoken to
oh well, have friend who does all my work now and im more than happy, beleive he knows larry well and speaks highly of you
10-17-2008, 10:56 AM
#112
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Re: (vti444)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vti444 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
approached them many years ago to a b head for me, got a big simple answer NO, became quite evident you had to be an insider or very close of friend of someone there to even get spoken to
oh well, have friend who does all my work now and im more than happy, beleive he knows larry well and speaks highly of you </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, you tend to be able to be selective when you are doing engine development for Formula 1 teams and involved with OEM backed racing projects. It would be like asking McDonalds to market a burger that catered only to you. Sorry, they have bigger fish to fry.
approached them many years ago to a b head for me, got a big simple answer NO, became quite evident you had to be an insider or very close of friend of someone there to even get spoken to
oh well, have friend who does all my work now and im more than happy, beleive he knows larry well and speaks highly of you
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yup, you tend to be able to be selective when you are doing engine development for Formula 1 teams and involved with OEM backed racing projects. It would be like asking McDonalds to market a burger that catered only to you. Sorry, they have bigger fish to fry.
10-17-2008, 12:16 PM
#113
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Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yup, you tend to be able to be selective when you are doing engine development for Formula 1 teams and involved with OEM backed racing projects. It would be like asking McDonalds to market a burger that catered only to you. Sorry, they have bigger fish to fry. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wheres the humour in the world gone, dont see why they didnt want my pounds, who needs multi million dollar contracts
Modified by vti444 at 10:03 PM 10/17/2008
Yup, you tend to be able to be selective when you are doing engine development for Formula 1 teams and involved with OEM backed racing projects. It would be like asking McDonalds to market a burger that catered only to you. Sorry, they have bigger fish to fry. </TD></TR></TABLE>
wheres the humour in the world gone, dont see why they didnt want my pounds, who needs multi million dollar contracts
Modified by vti444 at 10:03 PM 10/17/2008
10-17-2008, 02:45 PM
#114
Re: (vti444)
You could prolee have U2 and a champagne fountain at your birthday party if da price is right, but most Honda guys will have to settle for gangsta DJ's and 40's at a public park.
Ruff Riduhz fo da win!!
Ruff Riduhz fo da win!!
10-17-2008, 04:04 PM
#116
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Re: (Master of the Universe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Master of the Universe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You could prolee have U2 and a champagne fountain at your birthday party if da price is right, but most Honda guys will have to settle for gangsta DJ's and 40's at a public park.
Ruff Riduhz fo da win!!</TD></TR></TABLE> Thanks for the insight.
Ruff Riduhz fo da win!!</TD></TR></TABLE> Thanks for the insight.
10-17-2008, 08:50 PM
#118
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Of course, I have no idea what's going on. But I can tell you're crazy. :-p</TD></TR></TABLE>
you think he's crazy you should see some of the things in his shop ... that ole man is nuts with his toys, I personally can't wait to go back there to see what contraption he's building.
not for nothing, but you guys get too caught up with numbers ...
Of course, I have no idea what's going on. But I can tell you're crazy. :-p</TD></TR></TABLE>
you think he's crazy you should see some of the things in his shop ... that ole man is nuts with his toys, I personally can't wait to go back there to see what contraption he's building.
not for nothing, but you guys get too caught up with numbers ...
10-17-2008, 11:41 PM
#120
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Re: (CHEETAH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
not for nothing, but you guys get too caught up with numbers ... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, theyre only what the sport is founded on. 1/4 times, trap speeds, engine power, cornering loads. We should come up with another way of identifying these phenomena sans numerals.
not for nothing, but you guys get too caught up with numbers ...
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah, theyre only what the sport is founded on. 1/4 times, trap speeds, engine power, cornering loads. We should come up with another way of identifying these phenomena sans numerals.
10-18-2008, 07:54 AM
#121
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Re: (Combustion Contraption)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, theyre only what the sport is founded on. 1/4 times, trap speeds, engine power, cornering loads. We should come up with another way of identifying these phenomena sans numerals. </TD></TR></TABLE>
speaking about hp #s and head flow numbers how its just mis-used ... and compression numbers too, you can do alot with a static 17.5:1 compr vs a dynamic of 14:1 ... this is not about V8 like the ole days, there is alot more technological advancement in these motors than your *simple* V8 where 17.5 compression and 11krpm and VP fuel vs. a 4 bangr highly technological import motor with alot more in it that jsut 17.5 compr lol
Yeah, theyre only what the sport is founded on. 1/4 times, trap speeds, engine power, cornering loads. We should come up with another way of identifying these phenomena sans numerals. </TD></TR></TABLE>
speaking about hp #s and head flow numbers how its just mis-used ... and compression numbers too, you can do alot with a static 17.5:1 compr vs a dynamic of 14:1 ... this is not about V8 like the ole days, there is alot more technological advancement in these motors than your *simple* V8 where 17.5 compression and 11krpm and VP fuel vs. a 4 bangr highly technological import motor with alot more in it that jsut 17.5 compr lol
10-18-2008, 11:08 AM
#122
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Re: (CHEETAH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
speaking about hp #s and head flow numbers how its just mis-used ... and compression numbers too, you can do alot with a static 17.5:1 compr vs a dynamic of 14:1 ... this is not about V8 like the ole days, there is alot more technological advancement in these motors than your *simple* V8 where 17.5 compression and 11krpm and VP fuel vs. a 4 bangr highly technological import motor with alot more in it that jsut 17.5 compr lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
How did you come out with that,14-1 dynamic compression? That is only 80% VE.
speaking about hp #s and head flow numbers how its just mis-used ... and compression numbers too, you can do alot with a static 17.5:1 compr vs a dynamic of 14:1 ... this is not about V8 like the ole days, there is alot more technological advancement in these motors than your *simple* V8 where 17.5 compression and 11krpm and VP fuel vs. a 4 bangr highly technological import motor with alot more in it that jsut 17.5 compr lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
How did you come out with that,14-1 dynamic compression? That is only 80% VE.
10-19-2008, 10:08 AM
#124
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (CHEETAH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CHEETAH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
speaking about hp #s and head flow numbers how its just mis-used ... and compression numbers too, you can do alot with a static 17.5:1 compr vs a dynamic of 14:1 ... this is not about V8 like the ole days, there is alot more technological advancement in these motors than your *simple* V8 where 17.5 compression and 11krpm and VP fuel vs. a 4 bangr highly technological import motor with alot more in it that jsut 17.5 compr lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
err... Don F (sorry i couldn found your quote)
i do run 15.5:1 with c16 on my new motor.... 32 deg total timing
i dont know is there is detonation or not.. i cant hear it..
how could i found my VE ?? so i could calculate my dynamic compresion..
simulation? Engine Analyzer Pro?
or by calculating the out flow capatity from the engine then divide it to my displacement.?
i just affraid my new 86x95 going kaboom by detonating, it just barely tuned 1 week ago.. (i dont use knock sensor, i dont know its broke or what, but we couldnt hear and found the sound with this motor running freeflow exhaust... but im sure i hear a bit knocking when i crank up the motor... 10 ign timing on 1000rpm)
speaking about hp #s and head flow numbers how its just mis-used ... and compression numbers too, you can do alot with a static 17.5:1 compr vs a dynamic of 14:1 ... this is not about V8 like the ole days, there is alot more technological advancement in these motors than your *simple* V8 where 17.5 compression and 11krpm and VP fuel vs. a 4 bangr highly technological import motor with alot more in it that jsut 17.5 compr lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
err... Don F (sorry i couldn found your quote)
i do run 15.5:1 with c16 on my new motor.... 32 deg total timing
i dont know is there is detonation or not.. i cant hear it..
how could i found my VE ?? so i could calculate my dynamic compresion..
simulation? Engine Analyzer Pro?
or by calculating the out flow capatity from the engine then divide it to my displacement.?
i just affraid my new 86x95 going kaboom by detonating, it just barely tuned 1 week ago.. (i dont use knock sensor, i dont know its broke or what, but we couldnt hear and found the sound with this motor running freeflow exhaust... but im sure i hear a bit knocking when i crank up the motor... 10 ign timing on 1000rpm)
10-19-2008, 01:11 PM
#125
Member
Re: (jt-sport)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jt-sport »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
err... Don F (sorry i couldn found your quote)
i do run 15.5:1 with c16 on my new motor.... 32 deg total timing
i dont know is there is detonation or not.. i cant hear it..
how could i found my VE ?? so i could calculate my dynamic compresion..
simulation? Engine Analyzer Pro?
or by calculating the out flow capatity from the engine then divide it to my displacement.?
i just affraid my new 86x95 going kaboom by detonating, it just barely tuned 1 week ago.. (i dont use knock sensor, i dont know its broke or what, but we couldnt hear and found the sound with this motor running freeflow exhaust... but im sure i hear a bit knocking when i crank up the motor... 10 ign timing on 1000rpm)</TD></TR></TABLE> How did you arrive at 15.5-1? What were the head cc's, block cc's, and gasket cc's?
This is not the best formula. But it is close.
Required VE= (9411x BHPx BSFC ) / (disp.x RPM). There is more to it. But this is OK.
Modified by DonF at 5:23 PM 10/19/2008
err... Don F (sorry i couldn found your quote)
i do run 15.5:1 with c16 on my new motor.... 32 deg total timing
i dont know is there is detonation or not.. i cant hear it..
how could i found my VE ?? so i could calculate my dynamic compresion..
simulation? Engine Analyzer Pro?
or by calculating the out flow capatity from the engine then divide it to my displacement.?
i just affraid my new 86x95 going kaboom by detonating, it just barely tuned 1 week ago.. (i dont use knock sensor, i dont know its broke or what, but we couldnt hear and found the sound with this motor running freeflow exhaust... but im sure i hear a bit knocking when i crank up the motor... 10 ign timing on 1000rpm)</TD></TR></TABLE> How did you arrive at 15.5-1? What were the head cc's, block cc's, and gasket cc's?
This is not the best formula. But it is close.
Required VE= (9411x BHPx BSFC ) / (disp.x RPM). There is more to it. But this is OK.
Modified by DonF at 5:23 PM 10/19/2008