ekferio

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by aznboysrfr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the vids of the DC5rs vs. DC2rs comes to mind.

dc2r &gt; dc5r</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you are referring to the one from hot version, those dc2r's were heavily tuned
i don't like ep3 just based on how it looks

Rankor

The EP3 is an acquired taste, kind like iced coffee, grits, and sweet mashed potatoes with honey butter.

But the CSi is as close as I'll ever get to owning a CTR.

I would rather have a CTR.

surferchad122

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the si is grown up. it's marketed that way and the younger end of the spectrum don't understand that.

heavy? please.

slow? for what? r0x0r teh 1/4? get a clue.

i love mine.

i_get_it, and i appreciate the changes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Coming from "Steve"... How old are you Steve? What's a guy with such a manly name as Steve doing driving a shortened Honda Odyssey?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiR Phil &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand the slow and heavy argument. A race of a stock EP versus a stock EM1 comes down to the drivers, although the EP will win if both cars are equally modified. And weight... the 02-03 EPs weighed in a little over 2700 lbs (the '04s and '05s gained another 100-150 lbs). The EM1? 2600 lbs. Wow... yeah, it's sooo much lighter. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Now, the weight factor... After owning a 2000 Si, and many other cars including a 2004 STi, and now a 1999 Hatch I can safely say that 100-250 lbs that you have listed as the weight differences between the years have a TREMENDOUS impact on a car's overall feel, including acceleration, braking, steering, etc.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jimmyjames &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The DC5 (with Mac suspension) will run circles around the old ITR (double wishbone). The DC5 is even heavier and still kills the ITR. Weight isn't all bad as long as it's used to make the chassis stiffer.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Just wait until the ITR guys get a hold of this one...

EM/EK&gt;EP, DC2R&gt;DC5R

kung fu grip

oy vey.

i am 32, chad.

why the ep3? well, chad, i drive this particular car because i don't have ***** envy or homophobic tendencies. i have a mortgage, a wife, a roadracing habit, and a career i plan to retire from at an early age. i don't understand the point of buying a $30k car to impress my neighbors or co-workers with. some complaints about this car are well-justified, but most i believe to be trite and superficial.

these are all issues that come up and are discussed almost as frequently as which exhaust looks 'ph47' on these cars.

todaCspec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kung fu grip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oy vey.

buying a $30k car to impress my neighbors or co-workers with. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I almost went that route....

FuRiO27

i think there time wil come........

nos4a2si

honestly, i drive alot.....especially in the hills.....why im on the hills dont matter (cheech and chong), but the suspension on the EP3 does just fine on tight corners, slant, and slalom. plus like a good sports suspension i feel every unavoidable giant pothole just like an s2000 would handle it.....which those are nice by the way.....and the weight issue........c'mon, are you kidding me? take out the spare, get some news seats, and a carbon fiber hood and hatch, all this for under 1500 and you weigh under stock by a great deal. even without doing that, the EP3 is lighter than alot of the other tuners out there. this dude with his big bad mitsu 3000gt heavy POS had nothing on my EP3!

liteyouup

I don't know. I have an 03 si with turbo. I got dyno'd at 255whp, 14.5 second 1/4 miles with street tires, bad launches and bad tire pressure, and zero skills. (Yes, I'm a noob at the track, first year I have a fast car with no problems yet.) They're not that slow. And, I live in Colorado, altitude kills you here.

mawreeo

ep's do NOT suck. they are sweet. the k20a3 is made for boost, and if you wanna go na, you can easily swap the k20a2 cuz it belongs in there anyways. as far as suspension goes, you can always make your ride stiffer. ask anyone that has rode in my car and they'll tell you how stiff that ish is....well, i am riding on tein superstreets and hotchkis front and rear swaybars

DavidT or VajT

EP3's are AWESOME! They don't look as good as the previous Si's, but they can look real clean with simple sides and lips. The suspension is a lil more shakey, and powerwise the B16 will pwn it, but it's still a nice car. The motor is good for boost, compression is low from factory. Overall, the car is a lil heavy, but it's an awesome car.

MINUS_the_

i hated them at first but they grew on me and now i have to admit i love EP3's...........there i said it

spoon_ep

yes, i love my ep3!

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chowmien &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It'll catch on. Give it a while longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The '92 hatch, also a British design, wasn't the cult car it is now until it was discontinued.

Now that the '02 hatch is about to be discontinued, it seems to be catching on.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Corbic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm told it has better structural integrity, better seats and a great transmission. </TD></TR></TABLE>

In 2002, there was no Type R in the USDM. We had already received the hype about the RoW CTR, so I think people were looking for too much.

1. The car's sticker price is too high. $19,500 just gives a lot of the potential buyers the shakes and I think they walked away without really investigating. For a long time, you could walk into a dealer with $16,000 and drive away in an EP3, but of course nobody really advertised that and many dealers made the mistake of trying to hold the line on a high price that nobody was going to pay. At the sticker price, the EP3 was perceivably clearly not the best buy in the category.

2. McPherson suspension. I don't want to argue about the merits and disadvantages of McPherson suspension and how it was implemented in the EP3, but it's sufficient to point out that a lot of traditional Honda/Acura names slammed the idea, hard. I am not sure why it was more of an issue with the EP3 than it was for the DC5, but I'm sure that the fact that Spoon tried to race the EP3 for two seasons and basically (quite loudly) gave up on it had a little to do with it. Other race teams have also given up on it and the DC5 as of last year, and gone to the CL7/CL9 (US TSX, RoW Accord).

The funny thing, of course, is that the 2006 Si Coupe will also be McPherson suspension. It's the only cheap way to build a car, and they need to meet a price point. If you are willing to pay a couple thousand more, then they could afford a double wishbone suspension like the USDM TSX.

3. Performance perception. I think the EP3 USDM five speed is fine, especially since we get it with the Type R axle ratio. However it <u>is</u> "just" a five speed. There is no Torsen axle. And in the 2002-2005 time frame, 160 HP isn't a lot for a car that's supposed to have a high performance image. I think the story would have been different if it had 180 HP, or if it had the 200 HP motor out of the USDM DC5.

4. It's a hatch. We can argue about whether or not an Si is supposed to be a hatch and talk about the relative merits and disadvantages, but the fact remains that when they introduced it in USDM 2002, hatchbacks were perceived as poor alternative transportation, the vehicle of someone who couldn't afford a coupe. I think this might not have been an issue by itself if not for the other marketing problems, but the hatchback in 2002 was a detriment considering that the other marketing issues were already weighing heavily on the programme.

5. It's not just a hatch...it's an ugly hatch. There are probably a few people like me who could afford something else but who'll hang onto the car for the kitsch value, but I really think they could have done a better job with the car's looks.

kung fu grip

two more cents...i can fit an adult greyhound in the hatch with the seats down and the dog sleeps great in there on long trips. i couldn't do that with a coupe.

yes, i looked into a lexus sportcross, but like i mentioned previously, i have other financial obligations i like to hold to (plus i'm considering another race car).

Accel Junky

I agree on the ugly part.

Type X

to drastic of a change from its overseas counterparty

in all past "hatches" "ctrs" etc etc

there was never an EXACT copy avail on the other shore
always had drastic motor differences , seating, power options etc etc

where as with the ep3
everything is good.....and close.....but no cigar

I loved mine
BUT i did every jdm ctr part to it lol

Battle Mike

I love my hatch. Lately I thought about getting something else...like a 350z..but that damn thing has no room in the back. This car meets my daily driving needs and fun factor.

I of course used to pump loads of power out on the k20a3 for a while...then got greedy for some more and blew it. Now I have the k20a2. I like the car just fine. I like the front suspension now, I used to hate it, but after getting in my friends 99 civic ex, I quickly changed my mind.

Shoot, I remember when these cars first came out, I thought they were sooooooooooooooo ugly. Then a few months later I was driving by honda in my 97 EX with a jrsc at 10psi. It was driving like crap at the time. so I went in the dealer and test drove the si. I fell for it as soon as I sat in the seat. I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping mine until it rusts apart.

03ephatch

this car is a head turner... rare on the streets. creeper on the race track. i get smiles. i see interest. the wagon seems to be getting longer. people just wanna buy them pre-owned nowadays.

wait! was this supposed to be an argumentative? ***scratching head***

all i see is looooove.

nos4a2si

i dont think its ugly......you should see my silver EP3 all waxed up with my konig reason rims! sick lookin! one day i will even get a body kit and CF hood and hatch! hell, the car turns heads, gets the women, its all good. lol.

EPthrizzle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The '92 hatch, also a British design, wasn't the cult car it is now until it was discontinued.

Now that the '02 hatch is about to be discontinued, it seems to be catching on. </TD></TR></TABLE>

just like george knighton said, when these cars are discontinued and no longer available, i think then the demand will be greater. Everyone wants what they can't have right?

the EP3 is simply an aquired taste.

liteyouup

Yeah, the suspension on the stock EP's sucks, but only if you are a racer. Chic's would be OK with it. NO, seriously, it's a little too soft for my taste, so I bought the TEIN Flex Coilovers, Neuspeed sways and front strut bar, D3 double X brace, and DG Idustries rear chassis brace.

UA6 BALLER STATUS

When the EP3 first came out back in 02, I thought it was ugly as hell, it looked like a sporty two door Odyssey. When the em1 came out in 99, I was in love with it, the EBP was soooooo nice to me. But now I think that the ep3 is nicer than the em1. The em1 looks like a normal civic. The ep3 has its own unique body style. I would consider buying an ep3. I love the OEM kit on the ep3, the exterior is very nice and in 10 years it wont look out dated. interior looks much better than the em1. I have two friends that have a 99 ex and one has a 00 Si and the interior is pretty much the same.

People don't like change but over time they will. The ep3 will be the em1 in a couple years.

M1K3

i love my ep3

no matter what any one says, it all comes down to what you think.

Red CiViC Hatch

looks like a tart kart