shion

Just thought i'd give this it's own thread for the sake of starting a new line of discussion. Taken from another post .....


Not exactly.... Take European Car's Exhaust comparison ....
"... It was a lot of work, but we chose a popular car, the Jetta
1.8T, and invited every exhaust manufacturer we could find to
send us its product. Thirteen responded by sending their products
for us to test. We inspected them, photographed them, installed
them, drove them, and put them on the Dynojet 248C at the
McMullen Argus Tech Center. This article is the result.

Putting exhausts on a 150-bhp stock car wouldn't really reflect
what readers will be doing with them, however, and wouldn't
really show the differences in performance. To truly test the
exhausts, we needed more flow. We installed a Neuspeed
P-Flo(TM) intake and 1.8T High-Flow Turbo Intake Pipe, along with
a GIAC chip. Most readers will be familiar with Neuspeed's line of
intakes. The 1.8T High-Flow Turbo Intake Pipe fits all VW Golf IV,
Jetta IV and Beetle 1.8T cars, plus Audi TT models equipped with
the 180-bhp engine. It bolts directly to the turbocharger and uses
factory mounting hardware for a perfect fit. Neuspeed states it
moves 70-percent more air than the factory air inlet pipe, and
gains an extra 7 bhp on an otherwise stock engine. We believe it
was the basis for significantly greater gains when the boost was
turned up. By smoothing airflow into the compressor, it allowed
the tiny, stock KO3 turbo to deliver the air needed to make
significantly more power than is generally considered possible
without upgrades. It seems to be a case of Neuspeed having
looked at a detail others ignored and finding another way to make
big improvements. Together with the GIAC chip, these changes
increased the Jetta's peak output from 143 hp at 5700 rpm at the
wheels to 180 hp at 4970 rpm with the stock exhaust. "

With non-stock exhaust, say an autotech exhaust you get 233 ft*lb at 3310 and 194 hp at 5960 to the road (see same comparo). Still for very little money and not even touching the intercooler, that's much better than what you'd expect out of an equivalently moded RSX. I mean look at the numbers a RSX-S with borla and injen CAI put out and then do the math and figure out how much a chip for it would have to do to compete....

Import Tuner for RSX-S
B Baseline Power 159.9 *120.6 *
1 Borla Exhaust 165.9 6122.6 2
2 Injen Intake 181.1 15.2 129.6 7
F Final Power 181.1 21.2 129.6 9

You see 110 ft lb coming from a chip even when it does come out???? Yeah thought so. Plus the next stage up of upgrades is much cheaper for a 1.8T because you already have the turbo in place and you can just change, say the intercooler instead of buying a whole turbo. If you want cost effective performance you'd choose the CHEAPER GTI 1.8T over the RSX-S any day. OF course I'm not much up on the styling of a GTI.

Trey

That's why I just bought a GTI 337.



More pics here

180 hp/ 174 tq (crank)
18" BBS (forged)
Recaro seats
Votex body kit
lower ride hight
re worked rear suspension.
12.3" front and 10.1" rear brakes (from the 225hp TT)

$500 ECU upgrade nets 215 hp 240 tq at the wheels ( http://www.goapr.com)

This will be a fun little car.

Oh yeah, the Honda is for sale.

shion

Absolutely fun but stock 337 aside from the chip. Incidnetally how do you figure 215hp, dynos show 196 at the wheel? Did you ever actually have it dyno'd yourself? The six speed is a nice adition and best of all the transmission is the MQ350 which I believe when the conversion is done means its rated for around 240 hp.

Like I said cost for this = RSX, chip $500 How much are you going to need to put into an RSX for similar performance. This one doesn't even look too bad and you can hold off on buying the suspension for a bit as this one is already lowered a wee bit.

typer_801

No argument here that the 1.8T is a fabulous motor that responds exceptionally well to increased boost levels. I even really appreciate the GTI 337 they're importing. It's about time we got some of the cooler GTI's. The only problem is reliability and warranty work.

VW is a HUGE PITA when it comes to warranty work. Especially when the car is owned by someone under 30 and it has *any* mod it (as minor as a windshield banner). Almost everything repair requires a call or two to the service manager, VWoA customer service, etc even for thing which are clearly under warranty and should be fixed. Three dealers, same story everywhere here and I've got plenty of friends with the same story.

As a former 5 time VW (3 GTI's) I really love the charm and character of the cars (something Honda's lack), but I got genuinely fed up with the reliability problems and dealer service practices. Maybe things have changed in the last years, I can only hope for anyone buying a new VW that they have.

Trey

The 215 is not listed on their site. Give them a call and they will tell you it's a dated website. The newer program on the ecu net 215hp/ 240tq at the wheels.

The 337 isn't available yet. I won't get mine until June. I'll dyno it and let you know how she performs when I get the chip. Even with the chip I don't expect it to be faster than low 14's. If it breaks into the 13's tha'd be nice, but I seriously doubt it.

6 speed tranny will be cool.


I'm not saying it's the best car ever, just something fun and differnt for me.

16vracer

I have a 2000 VW Golf 1.8T with a GIAC chip,SuperSprint Exhaust/ATP Downpipe, dynoing 225TQ at the wheels and 181HP at the wheels...keep in mind mine was 150hp crank stock, the turbo is a little smaller\different than the 2001 and 2002's.

My friend at work has a RSX-S with Borla and Injen intake. We just raced today. From a light, I started out directly behind the RSX, so we weren't side by side. I pulled enough to get over in the other lane and start coming up beside the RSX, then we had to brake for traffic and a turn. RSX in front again onto the on ramp, me on it's tail, sliding around the corner in 2nd, copious wheelspin :D We raced to 125 or so. I never passed it. We stayed pretty much the same distance apart as when we started.

It was fun.

bhcvc

Wasn't VW supposed to introduced the a 201HP 195TQ VR6 GTI also? Is that still in the plans or was it dumped due to the intro of the 337? Just wondering cuz I was looking into that for a while and thought it was supposed to be coming out about now or soon but I don't see anything info on it on VW's site or anywhere else. Thanks.

shion

I talked to the dealers, they were telling me the Jettas were on there way in a month ago. (the ones with the 24 V setup producing 201HP and 195 torque). The Volkswagon folks at the Toronto auto show had stated this earlier in the year. I forgot to ask about the GTI's but every car review website says they're also coming out this year. Expect to see them by June. The 337 is a slightly de-tricked version of the 25th anniversary version GTI in Europe. Almost identical a couple of doodads missing though nothing in the performance division. The way I figure it is noone was buying the VR6 because the 4 cyl produced more HP and was a faster car, so they had to produce another VR6 engine. They basically changed the old 12V V6 to a 24V. Personally if your going to put a LOT of money in the VR6 is the way to go, the 1.8T if you want to spend 1,750 or so and have a pretty smoking machine. I'd go with the VR6 just because I'm one of those old fashioned people who isn't really sure about how long there turbo is going to last pumping out the gargantuan numbers it's capable of. Plus the 337 is limited edition and so only the VR6 will have the 6 speed once the 337's are gone.

Cheers.

shion

Incidentally, who the hell is responsible for the ratings, and why is my comparison of two comparibly priced cars in the same class, with specific questions as to aftermarket performance considered a 1 star?? Does the site moderator do this crap?

16vracer

The 24V VR6 Jetta is out, has been for a few months. The GTI 24V will be coming soon

BananaCo

WOW i must say this is pretty damn good for a NA motor!!


[Modified by BananaCo, 1:38 AM 5/3/2002]

FusionITR

import tuner is gay

shion

I'm not so sure about that. All though the dyno doesn't say specifically where it' s measred, the APR page has the chipped numbers vs. stock graphs at 160 torque and 150 HP, which seems to be where you would expect the wheel HP for the 180hp/174torque engine to be . The giac chip dyno's have wheel HP dyno's and promises 181.1 HP and 210 ft/lbs torque vs 153.9 and 162.2 stock respectively. Both stock numbers appear to be Wheel HP as far as I can tell because otherwise you would see the numbers much closer to 180/174 for the stock. Now I suppose they could have charted their bhp numbers vs. the wheel hp numbers, but I highly doubt it.

rs-sex

you're gay.

FusionITR

sorry to dissapoint you but im not


[Modified by FusionITR, 12:43 PM 5/3/2002]

seriously

fusion..would you shut up? you must have NO LIFE coming on the rsx forum and talking mad ****..oh man..i dont want to hurt the type r's or anything.cuz oh man think about the CAR! .but i hope someone just takes ur whole car next time and u with it..

ANYWAYS...i went to the rsx dealer again guys..and im rethinking about the rsx-s..i want a supra..and if i can find one right now..for a reasonable price..u know ill be down for that...but if not..then rsx-s baby here i come!

FusionITR

yep your right, i have NO LIFE

and thanx for supporting theft and robbery, it shows you have real character in you

SkyeC

honestly you're fairly annoying and i don't like rsx's much either.

yawn on the bs.

shion

Well that was my question and he says they did over the phone. On their dyno cart they show 200 and 240. In any case what I'm really interested in knowing (since your friend went ahead and did the research for me) is how long does the engine last with this chip upgrade? Does he have any stats, figures or conjectures on what squeezing 200 WHP and 240Ft*lbs torque does to an engine one would like to keep for 10 years?? I'd be really interested if you could answer this.

seriously

oh yes..shows it rather quite well dont u think?...one thing though...do u see me going around in other forums and talking bs about other cars?..naaaah...cuz i stick to my own damn opinion..and ill express it when its needed..for example...YOU.....i think everyone would agree that you are fairly annoying...cant wait till i go to orange county cali in 2 weeks.. back to my home city baaabbbbbby...and my homies...


anyyyways...i dont like the 1.8 minis really...but their decent cars..rsx-s ill admit doesnt look as nice as the old tegs..but their nice cars...luxury pack..but in total..ill take either one if given..


[Modified by FhbNikAndy, 12:40 AM 5/4/2002]

shion

Well if you don't believe the hype, club rsx confirms around the same numbers, or are they gay too?

FusionITR

yes

Trey

As far as I know every car they dyno is on a rolling dyno, not an engine dyno.

The Stage III puts down 280hp 296 tq at the wheels.

I drove their 12.6 sec GTI and it was fast, butt dyno thought it was up there close to 300's but what do I know.

I'll dyno mine when I get it in June


[Modified by Trey, 8:29 PM 5/7/2002]

iNteGraz92

hey fusion why don't you just get the hell out of the rsx forum and go back to the type-r forum.

the type-r can NEVER lose!!!!!!!!

MK Ultra

One thing I will say as a former (air-cooled) Volkswagen owner and a current Honda/Acura owner is that the VW people are a lot cooler.

My Karmann Ghia was never once molested. Other VW owners, regardless of whether their cars were stock or modified, were almost universally friendly and mature. It felt like a good-natured community.

My Acura on the other hand needs to be constantly guarded to prevent theft and vandalism. The "scene" is just plain embarrassing, replete with odious pinheads and malefactors. The majority of the people involved with Hondas/Acuras are of a type with which I would not chose to associate myself. For that reason alone my next car is much more likely to be a Volkswagen.