Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much
11-14-2003, 06:32 AM
#27
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (Asahi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jond I have seen that letter and ITRCA has it on file. I can also tell you we know of several R's over 1000. I have seen as high as 1095 personally and there are cars as high as 1197 officially registerd on ITRCA. That letter has little to no credibility and no hard evidence.</TD></TR></TABLE>
What you have seen is an ITR number on the arm rest. While they appear to be numbered sequentially there is absolutely no proof that every number in the sequence is used.
Think about how you would put these plaques on cars if you were a manufacturer. Would you have some guy on the assembly line making the plaques, one for each car as it came down the line? Not likely. What you would probably do is to have a guy off line who made maybe 100 at a time and put them in a box. Then the box would be place near the line.
As each car came down the line some guy would grab a plaque out of the box and stick it on. So, as they came off the line you might have them in this order 207, 202, 219, 241, 206, 255 ...
The odds are very good that some of the numbers would be missed since they would not wait until the box was completely empty before another box was made.
Honda is not making very limited production cars here. they are making limited production cars. The numbers are just a little add on and should not be treated as gospel.
Regards,
Alan
What you have seen is an ITR number on the arm rest. While they appear to be numbered sequentially there is absolutely no proof that every number in the sequence is used.
Think about how you would put these plaques on cars if you were a manufacturer. Would you have some guy on the assembly line making the plaques, one for each car as it came down the line? Not likely. What you would probably do is to have a guy off line who made maybe 100 at a time and put them in a box. Then the box would be place near the line.
As each car came down the line some guy would grab a plaque out of the box and stick it on. So, as they came off the line you might have them in this order 207, 202, 219, 241, 206, 255 ...
The odds are very good that some of the numbers would be missed since they would not wait until the box was completely empty before another box was made.
Honda is not making very limited production cars here. they are making limited production cars. The numbers are just a little add on and should not be treated as gospel.
Regards,
Alan
11-14-2003, 06:33 AM
#28
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (01GSRTRBO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 01GSRTRBO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go to autotrader.com they usually have very good prices on all years Type R's. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just did an advanced search on '97-98 white Integras and I found Type Rs available for the following prices (and remember, these are asking prices, and may be negotiable downward):
$20,000 46K miles
$19,500 46K miles
$19,000 39K miles
$18,900 35K miles
$13,500 37K miles
$13,500 64K miles
$12,125 110K miles
$9,000 37K miles (salvage title and non-ITR motor)
</TD></TR></TABLE>I just did an advanced search on '97-98 white Integras and I found Type Rs available for the following prices (and remember, these are asking prices, and may be negotiable downward):
$20,000 46K miles
$19,500 46K miles
$19,000 39K miles
$18,900 35K miles
$13,500 37K miles
$13,500 64K miles
$12,125 110K miles
$9,000 37K miles (salvage title and non-ITR motor)
11-14-2003, 06:56 AM
#29
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (Asahi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jond I have seen that letter and ITRCA has it on file. I can also tell you we know of several R's over 1000. I have seen as high as 1095 personally and there are cars as high as 1197 officially registerd on ITRCA. That letter has little to no credibility and no hard evidence.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, but whos to say people on ITRCA can read properly? My number is hard to read.
Also, whos to say some aren't really canidan cars in there?
Regardless of whether its 1000 or 1200, its extremely rare...
Yeah, but whos to say people on ITRCA can read properly? My number is hard to read.
Also, whos to say some aren't really canidan cars in there?
Regardless of whether its 1000 or 1200, its extremely rare...
11-14-2003, 06:59 AM
#30
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
$13,500 37K miles
$13,500 64K miles
</TD></TR></TABLE>
if it were me, i'd go snag one of these if they haven't sold yet..
$13,500 37K miles
$13,500 64K miles
</TD></TR></TABLE>
if it were me, i'd go snag one of these if they haven't sold yet..
11-14-2003, 07:06 AM
#31
Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (George Knighton)
Quote, originally posted by Asahi »
That letter has little to no credibility and no hard evidence.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I definitely agree with you, but the people with the letter regard it as the only "hard" evidence ever to come out way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Until you have absolute proof to the contrary (like the number of every single ITR (VIN or sequence #), this is the BEST information available and seems to be from the company itself (which should be given merit on its face).
The fact that "registered" numbers may be higher does not necessarily discredit the above info, just as for instance we have seen that engine block #s don't necessarily concur with vins and serial numbers .... JMHO. Ed
Too bad Honda/Acura didn't keep better track of this.
I remember some time back someone giving the example of Honda making a number of ITRs in one color for multiple different markets (say CW) and numbering them according to the production run, and not necessarily any particular domestic market that they were going to be shipped to.
That letter has little to no credibility and no hard evidence.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I definitely agree with you, but the people with the letter regard it as the only "hard" evidence ever to come out way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Until you have absolute proof to the contrary (like the number of every single ITR (VIN or sequence #), this is the BEST information available and seems to be from the company itself (which should be given merit on its face).
The fact that "registered" numbers may be higher does not necessarily discredit the above info, just as for instance we have seen that engine block #s don't necessarily concur with vins and serial numbers .... JMHO. Ed
Too bad Honda/Acura didn't keep better track of this.
I remember some time back someone giving the example of Honda making a number of ITRs in one color for multiple different markets (say CW) and numbering them according to the production run, and not necessarily any particular domestic market that they were going to be shipped to.
11-14-2003, 07:23 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (zygspeed)
just take your time looking one will pop up,i had given up on an ITR an was planing to buy a WRX,the night before i was going to buy the WRX a guy who's car my roomate and i were working on said he saw an ITR on the side of the road for sale.Sure enough i went an bought it the next dayfor $16k with 50k miles
moral of story -good things come to thoose who wait
moral of story -good things come to thoose who wait
11-14-2003, 08:05 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (00R101)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00R101 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What you have seen is an ITR number on the arm rest. While they appear to be numbered sequentially there is absolutely no proof that every number in the sequence is used.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ther have been some patterns identified that woudl indicate they stay close to production sequence but no evidence enough to create a general rule
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Think about how you would put these plaques on cars if you were a manufacturer. Would you have some guy on the assembly line making the plaques, one for each car as it came down the line? Not likely. What you would probably do is to have a guy off line who made maybe 100 at a time and put them in a box. Then the box would be place near the line.
As each car came down the line some guy would grab a plaque out of the box and stick it on. So, as they came off the line you might have them in this order 207, 202, 219, 241, 206, 255 ...
The odds are very good that some of the numbers would be missed since they would not wait until the box was completely empty before another box was made.
Honda is not making very limited production cars here. they are making limited production cars. The numbers are just a little add on and should not be treated as gospel.
Regards,
Alan
</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed but we are talking not 202, 209, 218 we are talking 1023 being the last we would have seen and then skipping to 1197. The ONLY excuse we have for their claim is that the numbers we see are based on North America not US and the letter is based on US. This is never addressed and does nothing to leave us with anything more than more questions. I might be the most definiing piece of evidence we have but when it leaves so many evident loose ends we are left with nothing but the same situation we started with . . . speculation.
It is definitely the best resource we have but even the true source isn't verifiable. Whose to say that isn't forged? (Not saying it is just raising the question)
Does this count as thread hijacking?
What you have seen is an ITR number on the arm rest. While they appear to be numbered sequentially there is absolutely no proof that every number in the sequence is used.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ther have been some patterns identified that woudl indicate they stay close to production sequence but no evidence enough to create a general rule
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Think about how you would put these plaques on cars if you were a manufacturer. Would you have some guy on the assembly line making the plaques, one for each car as it came down the line? Not likely. What you would probably do is to have a guy off line who made maybe 100 at a time and put them in a box. Then the box would be place near the line.
As each car came down the line some guy would grab a plaque out of the box and stick it on. So, as they came off the line you might have them in this order 207, 202, 219, 241, 206, 255 ...
The odds are very good that some of the numbers would be missed since they would not wait until the box was completely empty before another box was made.
Honda is not making very limited production cars here. they are making limited production cars. The numbers are just a little add on and should not be treated as gospel.
Regards,
Alan
</TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed but we are talking not 202, 209, 218 we are talking 1023 being the last we would have seen and then skipping to 1197. The ONLY excuse we have for their claim is that the numbers we see are based on North America not US and the letter is based on US. This is never addressed and does nothing to leave us with anything more than more questions. I might be the most definiing piece of evidence we have but when it leaves so many evident loose ends we are left with nothing but the same situation we started with . . . speculation.
It is definitely the best resource we have but even the true source isn't verifiable. Whose to say that isn't forged? (Not saying it is just raising the question)
Does this count as thread hijacking?
11-14-2003, 08:32 AM
#34
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (zygspeed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Too bad Honda/Acura didn't keep better track of this.</TD></TR></TABLE>
One thing to realize is that Honda/Acura does (do?) keep track of the cars as they are sold - but they do it by VIN, not by ITR number. The last five digits of the VIN are incremented in order as the cars move down the assembly line (with a different VIN range for each market, with the market specified by some other digit). All of their systems which track cars - such as for recalls, etc - do so using the VIN. Any dealer service department can retrieve a complete history of recall service (not all service, unfortunately) by entering the VIN. And when there are TSBs and recall notices, you often see that only a portion of a model year's production is included, as specified by the range of VIN.
Honda's/Acura's records are complete and accurate. I've seen them for the NSX (shown here for '91-98) and I know that the people inside Honda/Acura HQ in Torrance keep good track of what was sold in the States, because I've talked with them about it. They have to - not only for their own edification, but also for legal reasons (for example, when the government orders that a recall notice be issued; the press release often states the exact number of cars involved, which is not an approximation).
However, since the ITR is the only car they sold that had a numbered plaque (other than the Zanardi NSX, which were produced in one sequence so that the number and the VIN are easily translatable to each other), they never bothered recording the ITR number or associating it with the VIN, AFAIK. So while they keep great track of the cars sold by VIN, they don't do so for the ITR number.
Knowing what I know about how they keep track of their cars, I believe the information in the letter is true. Others are welcome to agree or disagree, of course.
One thing to realize is that Honda/Acura does (do?) keep track of the cars as they are sold - but they do it by VIN, not by ITR number. The last five digits of the VIN are incremented in order as the cars move down the assembly line (with a different VIN range for each market, with the market specified by some other digit). All of their systems which track cars - such as for recalls, etc - do so using the VIN. Any dealer service department can retrieve a complete history of recall service (not all service, unfortunately) by entering the VIN. And when there are TSBs and recall notices, you often see that only a portion of a model year's production is included, as specified by the range of VIN.
Honda's/Acura's records are complete and accurate. I've seen them for the NSX (shown here for '91-98) and I know that the people inside Honda/Acura HQ in Torrance keep good track of what was sold in the States, because I've talked with them about it. They have to - not only for their own edification, but also for legal reasons (for example, when the government orders that a recall notice be issued; the press release often states the exact number of cars involved, which is not an approximation).
However, since the ITR is the only car they sold that had a numbered plaque (other than the Zanardi NSX, which were produced in one sequence so that the number and the VIN are easily translatable to each other), they never bothered recording the ITR number or associating it with the VIN, AFAIK. So while they keep great track of the cars sold by VIN, they don't do so for the ITR number.
Knowing what I know about how they keep track of their cars, I believe the information in the letter is true. Others are welcome to agree or disagree, of course.
11-14-2003, 08:40 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nsxtasy)
Ken,
I am not here to say it is untrue but at this point lacks hard info. Not to debate that point any further as we all have opinions, would you say that having an ITR registry based on the last 5 digits of the VIN would add validity? This would be untracable info from the VIN by itself but like you mentioned and most of us know this is a unique number to the car.
Trey
I am not here to say it is untrue but at this point lacks hard info. Not to debate that point any further as we all have opinions, would you say that having an ITR registry based on the last 5 digits of the VIN would add validity? This would be untracable info from the VIN by itself but like you mentioned and most of us know this is a unique number to the car.
Trey
11-14-2003, 08:52 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nice_eg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nice_eg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kelly blue book list them at 14,000 in excelent condition. and i have only seen them for aroun 19,000. the reason i am asking is because i am getting a loan for one. but the bank will only give me what the blue book lists it as</TD></TR></TABLE>
Gimme 21g's a you got a deal
Gimme 21g's a you got a deal
11-14-2003, 08:54 AM
#37
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (Asahi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not here to say it is untrue but at this point lacks hard info. Not to debate that point any further as we all have opinions</TD></TR></TABLE>
Of course.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you say that having an ITR registry based on the last 5 digits of the VIN would add validity?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It might, or it might not. Here's why.
If the ITRs were all produced in one sequence like the Zanardi NSXs were, it would make it easy to figure out a relationship between the VIN and the ITR number. For example, here is how the Zanardi NSXs are associated with VIN numbers:
All US NSX Zanardi Edition VIN numbers are in the format JH4NA212*XT000xxx where * is the check digit and xxx is the serial number.
Zanardi edition plaque #00 was a press car, serial number 127
Zanardi edition plaque #01 is the car delivered to Alex Zanardi with European VIN
Zanardi edition plaque #02-#16 are serial numbers 128-142 (in order)
Serial #143 was not a US car and not a Zanardi
Zanardi edition plaque #17-50 are serial numbers 144-177 (in order)
If you can take some known relationships between ITR numbers and VIN numbers and find that they were all produced in a single sequence, you might be able to confirm (or invalidate) the production numbers. On the other hand, if there is no relationship between the two, so that they were making all different Integra models and as they went down the assembly line it was RS, GSR, ITR, LS, RS, GSR, ITR, LS, etc - and, unfortunately, I think I recall reading here that this was the case - then having the VIN numbers of the ones that were ITRs really won't help you come to any conclusions about how many ITRs were produced. At least that I can figure out, anyway.
Hope that makes sense.
Another option (that has been used on the NSX site) is to try plugging VIN numbers into the "My Acura" function on Acura's website, which will tell you whether they are valid or invalid. You should be able to figure out what a valid U.S. VIN number would be for an ITR; I'm pretty sure that all VINs for all U.S. ITRs would be the same except for the sequence number at the end (last 5 digits) and the check digit. You can figure out the check digit easily enough; I believe the algorithm shown in the NSX FAQ applies for all cars, or at least, for all Acuras/Hondas. So if you wanted to try plugging a whole sequence of VIN numbers into Acura's website, you could find out which ones were really sold as ITRs, and which ones weren't. But we're talking about thousands of cars, and that could take a lot of time...
HTH
Of course.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you say that having an ITR registry based on the last 5 digits of the VIN would add validity?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It might, or it might not. Here's why.
If the ITRs were all produced in one sequence like the Zanardi NSXs were, it would make it easy to figure out a relationship between the VIN and the ITR number. For example, here is how the Zanardi NSXs are associated with VIN numbers:
All US NSX Zanardi Edition VIN numbers are in the format JH4NA212*XT000xxx where * is the check digit and xxx is the serial number.
Zanardi edition plaque #00 was a press car, serial number 127
Zanardi edition plaque #01 is the car delivered to Alex Zanardi with European VIN
Zanardi edition plaque #02-#16 are serial numbers 128-142 (in order)
Serial #143 was not a US car and not a Zanardi
Zanardi edition plaque #17-50 are serial numbers 144-177 (in order)
If you can take some known relationships between ITR numbers and VIN numbers and find that they were all produced in a single sequence, you might be able to confirm (or invalidate) the production numbers. On the other hand, if there is no relationship between the two, so that they were making all different Integra models and as they went down the assembly line it was RS, GSR, ITR, LS, RS, GSR, ITR, LS, etc - and, unfortunately, I think I recall reading here that this was the case - then having the VIN numbers of the ones that were ITRs really won't help you come to any conclusions about how many ITRs were produced. At least that I can figure out, anyway.
Hope that makes sense.
Another option (that has been used on the NSX site) is to try plugging VIN numbers into the "My Acura" function on Acura's website, which will tell you whether they are valid or invalid. You should be able to figure out what a valid U.S. VIN number would be for an ITR; I'm pretty sure that all VINs for all U.S. ITRs would be the same except for the sequence number at the end (last 5 digits) and the check digit. You can figure out the check digit easily enough; I believe the algorithm shown in the NSX FAQ applies for all cars, or at least, for all Acuras/Hondas. So if you wanted to try plugging a whole sequence of VIN numbers into Acura's website, you could find out which ones were really sold as ITRs, and which ones weren't. But we're talking about thousands of cars, and that could take a lot of time...
HTH
11-14-2003, 08:54 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (Asahi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not here to say it is untrue but at this point lacks hard info. </TD></TR></TABLE>
The way I see it, we have two opposing pieces of info. One, a letter from acura, and two, members reports of their number.
Being that we dont have insight into the production process, I would tend to believe the people at Acura.
For all we know, they could have had broken placks and whatnot that just got thrown out.
The way I see it, we have two opposing pieces of info. One, a letter from acura, and two, members reports of their number.
Being that we dont have insight into the production process, I would tend to believe the people at Acura.
For all we know, they could have had broken placks and whatnot that just got thrown out.
11-14-2003, 08:55 AM
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im selling my 98 itr just turned 70k. i have all service records and the car has a clean carfax. i boughtteh car from original owner 3 months ago. ill sell it for 16500 obo
11-14-2003, 09:01 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (jond)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jond »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The way I see it, we have two opposing pieces of info. One, a letter from acura, and two, members reports of their number.
Being that we dont have insight into the production process, I would tend to believe the people at Acura.
For all we know, they could have had broken placks and whatnot that just got thrown out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just like the justice system. Innocent until proven guilty is how I am seeing this letter. Or better put, speculation without more evidence. There is no tracability . . .We need to do more work on figuring this out and not placing so much trust in one scanned letter is all I am saying. At this point is it truly the best piece of evidence you have but still not enough to be positive. That's all, it still leaves room for questions.
The way I see it, we have two opposing pieces of info. One, a letter from acura, and two, members reports of their number.
Being that we dont have insight into the production process, I would tend to believe the people at Acura.
For all we know, they could have had broken placks and whatnot that just got thrown out.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just like the justice system. Innocent until proven guilty is how I am seeing this letter. Or better put, speculation without more evidence. There is no tracability . . .We need to do more work on figuring this out and not placing so much trust in one scanned letter is all I am saying. At this point is it truly the best piece of evidence you have but still not enough to be positive. That's all, it still leaves room for questions.
11-14-2003, 09:02 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (Asahi)
I'm just curious... why is important whether you know if there's 1000 or 1200 or 1137 98 ITR's? Or 97 ITR's or whatever... seems trivial, maybe i just dont get it?
11-14-2003, 09:04 AM
#42
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...I know that the people inside Honda/Acura HQ in Torrance keep good track of what was sold in the States, because I've talked with them about it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i wonder if the torrance gang here (myself, yoshi234, mikehonda, itrbroham, etc.) may be able to pay an "in person" visit to the hq. an "in person" visit may have more "persuasive" influence on getting closer to a more accurate count. however, not to discount what jond and nsxtasy were able to find. will keep you all posted.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i wonder if the torrance gang here (myself, yoshi234, mikehonda, itrbroham, etc.) may be able to pay an "in person" visit to the hq. an "in person" visit may have more "persuasive" influence on getting closer to a more accurate count. however, not to discount what jond and nsxtasy were able to find. will keep you all posted.
11-14-2003, 09:18 AM
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (Asahi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm just curious... why is important whether you know if there's 1000 or 1200 or 1137 98 ITR's? Or 97 ITR's or whatever... seems trivial, maybe i just dont get it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Probably doesn't matter, but I think it would add to the ITR legacy to know all about the processes our cars went through. Right now we have the oportunity to find out. 30 years from now, there wont be a way to find out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We need to do more work on figuring this out and not placing so much trust in one scanned letter is all I am saying.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I totally agree. Someone at Honda must know how the number system worked, and how many were produced.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kepani »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wonder if the torrance gang here (myself, yoshi234, mikehonda, itrbroham, etc.) may be able to pay an "in person" visit to the hq. an "in person" visit may have more "persuasive" influence on getting closer to a more accurate count.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Awesome
Thats what needs to be done. Maybe get it in writing when you find someone with the answer...
Probably doesn't matter, but I think it would add to the ITR legacy to know all about the processes our cars went through. Right now we have the oportunity to find out. 30 years from now, there wont be a way to find out.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Asahi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We need to do more work on figuring this out and not placing so much trust in one scanned letter is all I am saying.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I totally agree. Someone at Honda must know how the number system worked, and how many were produced.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kepani »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wonder if the torrance gang here (myself, yoshi234, mikehonda, itrbroham, etc.) may be able to pay an "in person" visit to the hq. an "in person" visit may have more "persuasive" influence on getting closer to a more accurate count.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Awesome
Thats what needs to be done. Maybe get it in writing when you find someone with the answer...
11-14-2003, 09:34 AM
#44
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> maybe i just dont get it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
duh
duh
11-14-2003, 10:51 AM
#45
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nsxtasy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you can take some known relationships between ITR numbers and VIN numbers and find that they were all produced in a single sequence, you might be able to confirm (or invalidate) the production numbers. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe we can test that right now. There are known 98 ITR numbers that are right next to each other.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=674605
#272
#273
If the two owners can compare their VIN's, we can get a solid answer. If their VIN's are also 1 number apart, we have proof of a relationship between production numbers and VIN's.
If you can take some known relationships between ITR numbers and VIN numbers and find that they were all produced in a single sequence, you might be able to confirm (or invalidate) the production numbers. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe we can test that right now. There are known 98 ITR numbers that are right next to each other.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=674605
#272
#273
If the two owners can compare their VIN's, we can get a solid answer. If their VIN's are also 1 number apart, we have proof of a relationship between production numbers and VIN's.
11-14-2003, 10:56 AM
#47
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (zygspeed)
It would be more meaningful if you had two numbers that were, say, 250 apart, and you found out that the two VINs were exactly the same number apart. That would mean that 250 of the cars were built in the same sequence.
11-14-2003, 10:58 AM
#48
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nsxtasy)
I suspect we will find even those 2 cars do not follow that pattern. Makes me wonder if the Type-R and the other models didn't get built on the same line together. I have worked in a car manufacturing plant and the car carries a work label that tells what work and pieces it gets. This would allow the VIN numbers to include GSRs, LSs, RSs, GSs and such.
Just a guess but a great place to start.
Just a guess but a great place to start.
11-14-2003, 11:06 AM
#49
Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (nsxtasy)
Quite frankly, I don't see how or why it matters how many of the cars were sold in this country.
The fact remains that they are still highly desirable for their racing heritage and otherwise stock performance aspects, and not because there are (or were) only so many sold or left.
Furthermore, one can determine whether a car was an ITR or not from the VIN, so this as well is not in question unless someone went through the bother for "faking" a car.
Marques like Porsche and Ferrari keep much better records of these kinds of things, partly because they produce many fewer cars than Honda/Acura, and a lineage/originality can be requested from the factory through use of a VIN.
Ed --- who thinks he'd like to get a stockish FBP or NBP in the future to go with (keep company) his modified CW.
The fact remains that they are still highly desirable for their racing heritage and otherwise stock performance aspects, and not because there are (or were) only so many sold or left.
Furthermore, one can determine whether a car was an ITR or not from the VIN, so this as well is not in question unless someone went through the bother for "faking" a car.
Marques like Porsche and Ferrari keep much better records of these kinds of things, partly because they produce many fewer cars than Honda/Acura, and a lineage/originality can be requested from the factory through use of a VIN.
Ed --- who thinks he'd like to get a stockish FBP or NBP in the future to go with (keep company) his modified CW.
11-14-2003, 11:22 AM
#50
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Re: Why do people sell there 1998 R's for so much (zygspeed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ed --- who thinks he'd like to get a stockish FBP or NBP in the future to go with (keep company) his modified CW. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Sounds like this.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Sounds like this.