EM1 Loi

I purchased a 97 ITR a year ago to rebuild for a track car. All the oem brake hard lines were cut. I replaced them all with good ones from the wrecking yard.

Installed a new oem Honda master bled all 4 brakes, no air bubbles left. Car has always had spongy brakes since day one. I've bled the system over 7 times within the past year trying to get rid of the problem. I've recently changed the master to another oem Honda one and still spongy.

I've even tried changing the abs module with another one from a running car and still spongy. I'm running out of ideas so any help or ideas is appreciated.

Tracked the car about 6 times already and I never lose any fluid or pedal dropping. Brakes good but pedal is spongy and not like my previous ITRs.

- New good ridge stainless brake lines.
- New powerslot rotors
- New pmu club racer front n rear pads
- rebuilt front calipers rear calipers were on a friends car without issues
- motul rbf600
- changed the brake booster twice
- new Honda mc twice
- abs module once

navin

iTrader: (1)

Did you bench bleed the new MC before putting it on?

CraterGrillo

I recall that the ITR has a different bleeding order than the other integras. Is it possible that you're bleeding them in the wrong order?

EM1 Loi

Both mc was bench bled.

Brakes are bled from front left, front right rear right and then rear left

speedooo

Found this through google...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...-Type-I-amp-II

94rs-turbo

iTrader: (6)

I have always bled RR, LR, RF, LF
are the slide pins properly lubed?
Tech here at acura said bleed LF,RF, LR, RR

Hybrid96EK

Careful reading of the link provided will reveal the following:

"Type III ABS systems most post 96 cars will have the low pressure ABS system. these ABS systems do not have an Accumulator nor a ABS brake fluid resivor. They are blead as you bleed your brakes."

You shouldn't need to do anything special to bleed the ABS on the 1997.

Dave_B

This is WRONG.

Always bleed from the farthest from the MC and work your way closer. Also, you didn't mention how your bleeding. Speed bleeder? Or 2 man one on caliper, one on brake pedal method?

I always have preferred the manual way of 2 person.

Brockey

Is it possible you have a flex line collapsing? I've seen brand new rubber lines collapse when pressure was applied. Worst is it's hard to physically see happening. Good luck.

EM1 Loi

I have brand new stainless steel lines. I've replaced the stock rubber hoses with the stainless and it still feels the same.

I've bled it all kind of different ways doesn't help. Front front to back or from the rear to the front, same crappy feel. Always bled it by the two man method.

Dave_B

When you bleed, are you just bleeding a little fluid and looking for bubbles, or bleeding quite a bit?

While I know the Motul stuff is expensive, I'd try bleeding more, like a lot more per corner. Just to make sure there's no air still trapped in there somewhere.

Usually spongy is leaking seal, or air.

EM1 Loi

When I bleed I always bleed about a bottle per corner and have even came back to bleed it more. I always try to get rid of all the air bubbles, even the micro ones. I am using a clear hose on the bleeder to see whats coming out. Recently I've switched to cheap autozone fluid to figure the problem out before flushing it out with motul. Trying to figure out this issue before the next track day on April 8th. I will try surge bleeding today and see what happens.

Dave_B

When you say a bottle, your talking an entire Motul bottle? If so, then I'd imagine your not having an air in the line issue, that is IF you don't ever let the MC get low to introduce air in again.

One other thing, after you bleed, leave the MC cap off and pump the brakes. See if any bubbles come back up. Refill with fluid and go.

Robin6

Is there a way to check the booster? Or maybe the vacuum from the manifold?

EM1 Loi

Yeah, correct about an entire bottle of motul per corner. I always refill the master before it runs low and introduce air again. I do pump the brakes before the cap goes back on.

I was thinking about changing the distribution block on the firewall but I don't know if that would ever go bad and have internal leaks.

I've changed the brake booster twice, also changed the check valve too.

Dave_B

Have you re-inspected the brake calipers? Just to make sure there are no leaks? Also, under the dash on drivers side, any wet spots on the carpet or firewall?

EM1 Loi

I have not reinspected the caliper seals as I changed them and they did not change the pedal feel at all. No leaks under the dash on carpet or anything. Nothing on the brake booster under the Master either.

Robin6

hummmmm
there really is not that many mo9ving parts to the brake system, you are doing everything I would...I will keep at it... have you checked the vacuum line or replaced that also?

EM1 Loi

The car holds perfect idle with the brake booster vacuum line so I doubt changing it would do anything.

Robin6

good point. Have you tried a reverse bleeding system like from phoenix systems?

highroller54

show me a pic of the front and rear calipers

EM1 Loi

pictures with the wheels on? wheels off? no brake pads in? let me know

ND831

I'm having the same problem. I upgraded my brakes on my 93 civic Cx installed 1" MC, GSR brake booster, 40/40 proportioning valve, goodridge steel braided lines, GSR brakes all around. Having spongy brakes ONLY when car is on. Have already replaced the MC and booster twice bled the system plenty of times starting from the rear (rr,lr,rf,lf). Is this the same issue?

0GearHeadDeals.com

Did you fix the issue OP?

EM1 Loi

I did not fix the problem yet, I was thinking of getting rid of the abs. Not sure if it's from the abs system or not but it's worth a try.

I've had all the non-abs lines and prop valve from a 98 RS new from the dealer but haven't changed it yet. Going to try to fix it a couple more times and if I can't fix it I'll install it.