JDM Factor

I'd stick with the Motul, I've been pretty pleased with the results of using it.

DutchITR1689

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM Factor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd stick with the Motul, I've been pretty pleased with the results of using it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We are talking about two types of Motul fluid. Which one are you talking about?
Motul RBF DOT 4 or Motul DOT 5.1?

92TypeR

I just completed my 7th HPDE on VR (f)/Gt-Sport (r) combo and the VR's are about 2 days away from needing replacing, but this is track use only, I swap out to stock before/after each event. Replaced rotors once since first use with the VR's. They have a very violent braking force when fully heated, and Andie @ Cobalt made the perfect recommendation. Mated with R compounds, I can't imagine much more in terms of braking force. Some nice 4pot calipers will help lengthen the life of the rotors, but at 30 bucks a pop, rotors aren't a huge deal to replace. They do need some time to come to operating temps, about 2 laps from cold.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Anyhow, anyone even THINKING about running Cobalt Spec VR pads on the street, DON'T DO IT!...Even when they were hot, they only felt about like stock cold pads (which were pretty good IMO). </TD></TR></TABLE>
I've been using Spec V-R for a while, now, and I have never had a problem stopping the car when cold. In fact, I drive to the track with the pads on, and usually don't bother taking them off because of how seldom the ITR is driven these days.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, bring stopwatches.... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Most sanctioning organisations are nervous about stopwatches showing up at driving schools, because of the insurance. Just so you know.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I've been using Spec V-R for a while, now, and I have never had a problem stopping the car when cold. In fact, I drive to the track with the pads on, and usually don't bother taking them off because of how seldom the ITR is driven these days. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, yeah I'm going to run them to/from the event, but I will probably change them out for winter.

I should have corrected my first post, but I agree that they CAN be streeted and probably aren't unsafe, but I like a grippier pad.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most sanctioning organisations are nervous about stopwatches showing up at driving schools, because of the insurance. Just so you know. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Did I say stopwatch? I meant a video camera with seconds display.

toEknEEg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mist sITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont think u'll have to worry about changing your pads after 1 event. your rotors on the other hand might get eaten alive.

i've got cobalt spec B's which are a level below the VR's and they look good as new after 3 months but my stock rotors are getting carved into pretty deep (ruffly the with of a dime on each side ).</TD></TR></TABLE>

one day at sebring.. killer on brakes...

Erik95LS

woah. Theres no way those pads wore that much from one day. They weren't new were they? Also which pads are those?

toEknEEg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">woah. Theres no way those pads wore that much from one day. They weren't new were they? Also which pads are those?</TD></TR></TABLE>

they were used for 6-10 laps at a 1mile test track.. very small. then they were at Sebring. Sebring is horrible on brakes. so they basically broke in at the test track.. then beat on at Sebring.

they are the spec VRs

some hardcore driving yO!

.RJ

If you destroyed those pads in one day at sebring there is something wrong with your braking techinque.

toEknEEg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you destroyed those pads in one day at sebring there is something wrong with your braking techinque.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no... thats about right. we wanted to make sure and called up andie at cobalt friction. he even verified that they would last about 4 hours of laps. it was about 50-60 laps on sebring.. thats 3.7 miles each lap by the way. its alot of work on those pads.

maybe some of you that aren't using up all the pad, arent pushing your cars hard enough

.RJ

4 hours? Is that a joke?

I get 5-6 weekends out of a set of Carbotech XP8's @ 3-4 hours per weekend at places that arent exactly brake friendly, plus all my street driving in between them.

Warren

4 hours of hard track time / racing on ITR sized pads is not unreasonable.

HPDE? I can make the same pads last half a season.

Warren

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toEknEEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
maybe some of you that aren't using up all the pad, arent pushing your cars hard enough </TD></TR></TABLE>

Or maybe you just slow down too much.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toEknEEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no... thats about right. we wanted to make sure and called up andie at cobalt friction. he even verified that they would last about 4 hours of laps. it was about 50-60 laps on sebring.. thats 3.7 miles each lap by the way. its alot of work on those pads.

maybe some of you that aren't using up all the pad, arent pushing your cars hard enough </TD></TR></TABLE>

Was that at a test, drink and tune session? hehehehe

Now, you have a smaller/ligher Civic CX with a B18C5, right? What size brakes do you have (what size are those rotors?) How much does the car weigh? That's a key data point I think we're overlooking....

Also, do you brake late (like, near the slip point) or do you brake early and slow? I've heard from 2 different driving instructors that both are harder on brakes (the reasoning for braking hard, is to heat up the surface of the pads/rotor quickly, and not let the heat bleed into the piston/caliper as much.... hmmm... and the reasoning for braking easy was 'common sense', don't heat the brakes as much because they're still radiating/cooling themselves during the braking event...)

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Also, do you brake late (like, near the slip point) or do you brake early and slow?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think most of us would agree that going full-on the brakes to the point of threshold or ABS is the fastest way around the track and also the easiest on the brakes.

toEknEEg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Was that at a test, drink and tune session? hehehehe

Now, you have a smaller/ligher Civic CX with a B18C5, right? What size brakes do you have (what size are those rotors?) How much does the car weigh? That's a key data point I think we're overlooking....

Also, do you brake late (like, near the slip point) or do you brake early and slow? I've heard from 2 different driving instructors that both are harder on brakes (the reasoning for braking hard, is to heat up the surface of the pads/rotor quickly, and not let the heat bleed into the piston/caliper as much.... hmmm... and the reasoning for braking easy was 'common sense', don't heat the brakes as much because they're still radiating/cooling themselves during the braking event...)</TD></TR></TABLE>

If u havent noticed its the RSX we are talking about, the pic of the RSX is up there...

and yes.. he was taking it to the last possible point... testing out new toyo RA-1... first time on R compounds


Modified by toEknEEg at 10:05 PM 10/12/2004

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think most of us would agree that going full-on the brakes to the point of threshold or ABS is the fastest way around the track and also the easiest on the brakes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, but I noticed that if i lengthen my braking distances just a bit and go slightly easier on the application (ease into tham), my pad life increases.... as opposed to waiting until the last possible marker and standing on them, warren styles

toEknEEg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yes, but I noticed that if i lengthen my braking distances just a bit and go slightly easier on the application (ease into tham), my pad life increases.... as opposed to waiting until the last possible marker and standing on them, warren styles </TD></TR></TABLE>

OFF the subject of my friends RSX with the VRs...

when I was at sebring with my EG, my instructor gave me his tips on braking

instead of easing into the brakes. make the hardest brake point further away from the corner.. so basically brake hard at first.. then ease off. i was doing this at the furthest cone. as i was stopping first... the cars ahead of me bolted forward.. but when they broke hard for the turn at the end, i caught up to them and almost passed them.

then i road in his porsche carrera something ( dont know much about porsches ), he demonstrated the same technique on turn 17 ( the hardest corner in sebring ) and he got on the bumpers of other cars that were originally 5-7 cars ahead of him on the straight.

if all that doesnt make sense... brake hard first then easing off... instead of ease in then start braking hard.

just a different approach that worked for me from a skilled instructor.

just some food for thought

Erik95LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toEknEEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">instead of easing into the brakes. make the hardest brake point further away from the corner.. so basically brake hard at first.. then ease off. i was doing this at the furthest cone. as i was stopping first... the cars ahead of me bolted forward.. but when they broke hard for the turn at the end, i caught up to them and almost passed them. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That what I was always taught and what I generally find to work best.

.RJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toEknEEg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just some food for thought </TD></TR></TABLE>



I'm still going into them hard, and easing off - smooth/hard application and smooth release is the what you want

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">



I'm still going into them hard, and easing off - smooth/hard application and smooth release is the what you want </TD></TR></TABLE>

An instructor (Len Vanderjagt) put it well, that you want to brake hard while the brakes are cooler. That's as opposed to warming up the brakes, and then stomping on them to finish braking. It makes for smoother transition into corners, or at least more reliable ones. And the peak brake temperatures are lower since your brakes have more time to dissipate the big heat spike from the hard braking.

Report on the Spec VR's: They held up fine, no major wear, no real fade, but my pedal is a little squishy after the last session. I'll bleed the brakes this weekend. Also, with the XP8's in the rear, I had way too much rear brake bias. It was hella fun to trail brake with though, I might as well have used the e-brake!!!

Speaking of rear-biased brakes, and brake dancing-- from turn 10b (fast right turn) into 11 (slower right turn), I clipped the curb at the entrance to 11 with my left rear quite a few times. hehehe that unsettled the car 'a bit'.

-Chris

Erik95LS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ccfries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Speaking of rear-biased brakes, and brake dancing-- from turn 10b (fast right turn) into 11 (slower right turn), I clipped the curb at the entrance to 11 with my left rear quite a few times. hehehe that unsettled the car 'a bit'.

-Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, well you're supposed to be going full-throttle through there anyway. I think the dancing we were both experiencing has alot to do with both our suspensions being too soft (allowing more frontal weight transfer) and us not having big enough rear wings (crazy hella downforce)

Also what is your front and rear alignment like? That could have a big effect on braking instability.

Heres a picture of Chris' brakes for good measure.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Haha, well you're supposed to be going full-throttle through there anyway. I think the dancing we were both experiencing has alot to do with both our suspensions being too soft (allowing more frontal weight transfer) and us not having big enough rear wings (crazy hella downforce)

Also what is your front and rear alignment like? That could have a big effect on braking instability.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Damnit Erik, make a thread already!

I'm toe-out in front, 0 toe in rear. Stock caster. Camber adjusted within SCCA Solo2 stock class rules (i.e. almost none, pushed shock towers towards inside and tightened against bolt hole sides. ha, ha.)

I run 3/4 stiff Koni yellows in rear. I have varied my fronts between mostly/all stiff and mostly/all soft.

Erik95LS

a little more toe in in the rear might help to alleiviate the "dancing" under braking