<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Interesting that this post should bring out the haters here who claim that "ITRs are overrated". </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's called reality buddy. I'm on my second one now. It's still overrated.

 

I'm not gonna lie...I didn't read any of it too lazy I just wanted to say......Its Still a Mother Facking Neon!

 

All cars are just that... just cars. It's just a matter of taste. I like my R just fine. But, I also like other imports/domestics.

ITR overrated?? Not for me at its price range. It's a great bargain.

 

nice write-up kendall. just like an automotive journalist, some will agree with you, some won't. its nice to read someone else's perspective sometimes, especially thought provoking ones.

some might read your words and take meaning different than others. personally, from what i get from you, its not so much the performance level in comparison to those other great cars, but instead an appreciation and reminder of how "different" the R was and is in philosophy, design and construction. it was something different and special at a time when most auto maunufacturers were only beginning to see the mass appeal of this "import culture" that we seem to find plastered everywhere now(pre Fast-and Furious).

today, there are cars that are being produced that of course can out-perform the R, but if you compare the abilty of the R in context with today's technology, you can understand why the R is and was a phenom, and automotive icon that still rings today. one can dispute this, but the mystique is there, and always will be if people like you are out there "representing"

 

Bottom line is the ITR does alot w/a little.

-Not alot of displacement, but it holds it own.

-No fancy huge brake setup, but it stops on a dime.

-No fancy suspension setup, but it handles very well.

Call me weird but I enjoy being the underdog.


Everyone is drawn to their car for a specific reason. You tend to find a common thread w/ITR owners (unless your name is Len, then you are just a damn stunna )

We usually respect/enjoy the same type of car ie, the Elise, E30 M3, etc..Basically the cars that a purpose built, and have a low curbweight.

My reasons for buying the R.
-reliability.
-lightweight. (to a degree)
-FWD. (I am familiar w/this platform, so I'm sticking to it.)
-cheap maintance.
-cheap aftermarket parts.
-fuel economy.
-balance. (I have driven 0 cars that do everything so well that also fit my price range.)
-resale value.
.....................
-The HUGE fawkin spoiler'

I totally understand what Kendall is saying though, it even happens w/my other Honda comrades.. They aren't really interested in anything but drag racing, so we don't always see eye to eye.

In all honesty I have respect for any carnut, as long as they have respect for me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still think ITRs are overrated and if you have some sort of delusion of grandeur owning one, wake up. Bring your ITR to a track and run it against a track built Z06 and you'll see what I'm talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So one well-designed car can't keep up with another well-designed car costing twice as much?

I'm shocked. I suppose you're trying to prove a point, but this sort of comparison is just pointless...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JeffS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So one well-designed car can't keep up with another well-designed car costing twice as much?

I'm shocked. I suppose you're trying to prove a point, but this sort of comparison is just pointless... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Then run it against a cheaper purpose built hatchback.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still think ITRs are overrated and if you have some sort of delusion of grandeur owning one, wake up. Bring your ITR to a track and run it against a track built Z06 and you'll see what I'm talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont understand your point. It cant outrun a ferrari either so what...
Is a porsche gt3 overrated because it cant outrun a Ford GT? No....

Also, as posted above, a Z06 cost twice as much and has an engine thats over 3 times the size...

If you want to compare apples to oranges, lets atleast be in the same ballpark. I've consistently beat up on two LS1 Camaros at my last HPDE. I believe these things have 320hp??? My ITR is stock, yet I was passing them without too much trouble. They had power, but I would come barreling out of this one turn at mach1, and I would fly right by them, and they could never get back up to make another pass.

And lets look at the stats...
.93 G's lateral acceleration.
60-0 in 115ft.
67.8 mph slalom
You can compare these stats to many ferrari's, porsche's, etc. Sure its lacking in the engine, but it only cost $25,000....

Noone will argue the Type-R is the best car ever. But it is the best car under $50,000.

 

lol

 

The only thing this thread accomplished was to over exemplify the ITR even more than what it deserves. I will wholeheartedly admit, it's one of the best cars I've ever own and I am quite proud to own one. I give respect when respect is due. I do not like to over glorify the car, but rather enjoy it for what it is.

The only "realization of difference" one needs to focus on is the fact that people are different. What you claim to be the best car for under $50,000 might be entirely different from another man's point of view. By separating yourself from those people at the local hangout, you've just expressed the same level of ignorance as they did. You've just accomplished "over rating" your ITR.

I do not disagree in anyway shape or form of the ITR's ability to excell in numerous categories. It's a well balanced car and that I do understand. But if someone had the money to purchase a car that is out of the ITR's performance envelope, do they have to be look down unto because the vehicle is not "Balanced from the factory" or "Purpose built?" No. It's simply an expression of choice what they choose to be their vehicle that satisfies them. Everyone has different criterias in their search for the perfect vehicle. Respect that.

I do not need live in denial. I understand what my car is capable of and do not feel down if there exist a car that can out perform mine for greater or less. In the end it's my own experience that matters, not someone elses.

I'm done for now.

 

shut up len we all know u are t00 g00d 4 da ITRRRrrrr y0

 

If they're obsessed with 18" wheels, they don't even care about that; they just care about the bling.

Sorry len, but I think this comment is just a load of cr*p.

If there's someone out there (and apparently there is) claiming that it's the best car under $50K new, then sure, maybe that particular individual is overrating the car. But I don't hear a lot of comments like that. No one goes around claiming it's the fastest car on the street, or even necessarily the best bang for the buck (I think the SRT-4 folks have a legitimate counter-argument there). But there are a lot of people who understand what the ITR offers... and I think -Lucky- described it well:

I agree with everything he says. Does that mean that the ITR is overrated? NO. But what it means is, the ITR was an icon, unique in its time - a car that comes from the factory built for the track, with a suspension and brakes and handling that make it a barrel of fun, with no real need to mod it to make it ready for racetrack flogging. Sure, NOW there are other cars that have picked up on that philosophy, notably the SRT-4 as well as others like the WRX STi and Evolution 8 that are more expensive than the ITR. But the ITR was here first, before those cars were available in North America.

Like I said before, the ITR is what it is - a very reliable, inexpensive car that has a helluva drivetrain and suspension and such that make it built for the track, and uniquely so for its time and cost. Does that statement overrate the car? NO.

Furthermore, I think your statement that the car is "overrated" is extremely misleading. "Overrated" usually refers to the automotive world at large, led by (but by no means controlled by) the automotive media - and IMO the ITR has never been rated as anything other than what it is. What I am saying is that most people would interpret your remark to mean that you think the ITR is cr*p. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's what most people think when they hear that term, which is usually used by people who are dissing a car (usually someone else's car). And, as I said earlier, I just think it's a shame whenever people (and particularly car enthusiasts) go around dissing each other's cars - whether intended or not.

If you mean that a few ITR owners think that their car is unjustifiably better than some other car where most other people would disagree, then say that. Say that a few owners think overly highly of their cars. But most of us know what it is, know its place and how it compares with other cars. And are totally realistic about it, and totally comfortable with what it is. And don't "overrate" it at all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -Lucky- &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some might read your words and take meaning different than others. personally, from what i get from you, its not so much the performance level in comparison to those other great cars, but instead an appreciation and reminder of how "different" the R was and is in philosophy, design and construction. it was something different and special at a time when most auto maunufacturers were only beginning to see the mass appeal of this "import culture" that we seem to find plastered everywhere now(pre Fast-and Furious).

today, there are cars that are being produced that of course can out-perform the R, but if you compare the abilty of the R in context with today's technology, you can understand why the R is and was a phenom, and automotive icon that still rings today. one can dispute this, but the mystique is there, and always will be if people like you are out there "representing" </TD></TR></TABLE>

-Lucky-, you have effectively hit the nail on the head with understanding what my point is. In truth, I didn't create this thread in order to state my point, but to gain a better understanding of what other R owners truly think about their cars. Yes I did stretch a few details but that's beside the point.

I still think it's hilarious that I put away both a Turbo Porsche and a 300+ whp WRX for my "overrated" R without giving it a second thought.

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to read this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kendall &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I still think it's hilarious that I put away both a Turbo Porsche and a 300+ whp WRX for my "overrated" R without giving it a second thought. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What's the point of this statement?
Because if they had truly tried I'm sure things would have been different.
Maybe they were just "posers", in which I'd think it would still be a hollow victory.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What's the point of this statement?
Because if they had truly tried I'm sure things would have been different.
Maybe they were just "posers", in which I'd think it would still be a hollow victory. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i think kendall meant with the statement that he has owned both of the cars, which he has i saw the turbo porsche
and to kendall, all i know is the integra LS is the phenmeon around here

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zygspeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What's the point of this statement?
Because if they had truly tried I'm sure things would have been different.
Maybe they were just "posers", in which I'd think it would still be a hollow victory. </TD></TR></TABLE>

There was no victory because there was no race. I was referencing both of the cars that I sold to get my R. Five months after I purchased my Porsche, I first drove an R and was astounded. I purchased a WRX a few months later because I received a deal that I couldn't turn away. Six months later, the Porsche was sold and I reverted the WRX back to stock and gave it to my brother for him to pay for because I had found an R. Neither of those vehicles offered the level of driver involvement nor the level of fun that the R has offered.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jtintegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think kendall meant with the statement that he has owned both of the cars, which he has i saw the turbo porsche
and to kendall, all i know is the integra LS is the phenmeon around here</TD></TR></TABLE>

And yes I have witnesses. And yes John's LS kicks ***.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jtintegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think kendall meant with the statement that he has owned both of the cars, which he has i saw the turbo porsche ...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, I'd misunderstood and stand corrected.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's called reality buddy. I'm on my second one now. It's still overrated. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I too think this is a load of crap. The ITR is held in such high esteem not because it's the fastest or best handling car out there - it's because it's a damn exciting car to drive.

Apparently that's not enough for you, and you (or your parents) decided you needed a fancier, more expensive car. A 3600-lb. E46 M3 is much more overrated than an ITR, but it's obvious what's really important to you.

Enjoy your 2-ton traction-controlled Bavarian washing machine and sell your ITR to someone who won't think it's an overrated, outdated machine.

 

Yeah I totally agree with what Kendall is saying about it.
Even though, I've done a couple upgrades to my car, the car is awesome just how it is.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I too think this is a load of crap. The ITR is held in such high esteem not because it's the fastest or best handling car out there - it's because it's a damn exciting car to drive.

Apparently that's not enough for you, and you (or your parents) decided you needed a fancier, more expensive car. A 3600-lb. E46 M3 is much more overrated than an ITR, but it's obvious what's really important to you.

Enjoy your 2-ton traction-controlled Bavarian washing machine and sell your ITR to someone who won't think it's an overrated, outdated machine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

And what if the "2-ton traction-controlled Bavarian washing machine" is a "damn exciting car to drive" to me? Does that mean I can't sit on the same pedestal you put yourself upon?

I simply said one thing, The ITR is overrated. Of course that's my opinion and I also inputed my personal experience with it, which was great. But there are finer pieces of machinery available. I do not need to say anything further because the very reason why I think it's overrated is proof positive in some of the replies on here already.

Trust me there are some foul names I can come up for the ITR. But remember the same "Maturity" level that Kendall speaks of? It's quite obvious which level you're on.

BTW, I think an M3 is overrated too.

 

Overrated? I raced against a few superclass M3 drivers that may disagree with you this weekend at VIR.

As a matter of fact, their opinion of the car couldn't be further from yours.

Who cares though? Like what you like, and drive what you drive.

 

Oh damn what am I doing in here? I must be lost.

I drive a 1992 CX hatchback with an R swap - probably the most overrated car lately...



Seriously though I hate to be an ***, but this topic's sole purpose seems to be a ego-stroking topic. It seems at first glance the total opposite, but the bottom line is that this guy thinks he's so much better than all those other guys because they wanted to race everyone with faster cars.

What brought you out to that spot in the first place? Would you not say that it requires a certain immaturity level to go hang out at night in a parking lot with a bunch of older guys with expensive cars that are probably neglecting families to fuel their selfish car desires?

What did you expect from such a crowd? Did you expect them to jump for joy over your R?

I think it's highly unfair for you to make such bold statements about having to have a certain "maturity level" to own an R or whatever just because you were hanging out with a bunch of ********.

Tell that to the growing number of ********* whose parents are buying used Rs for their 18 year old kids after the "mature" guys got tired of them.

 

I think he just meant he felt more mature because they only want to go fast, and don't know anything (that they let onto) about the technical side of things, and don't care a damn about why they are faster. Handling or speed doesn't matter, two different ways of racing.

 

In today's sport compact/sports car market I would have to agree that the R would be deemed a bit "over rated", only when compared to cars totally different from itself (AWD, RWD, more expensive). A car that sports a Type R "racing" name, with R stickers and a large spoiler has more than enough looks/hype to live up to. Remember that the first Integra R's debuted in late 1995 in Japan, and had practically no FWD rivals that could compete in acceleration, handling, braking at the time. Name any FWD car since the R that can remotely compete with its performance numbers (track times/balance/steering feel). Over the next 6-7 years it dominated its market, being one of the only cars that you could really take to the track off the showroom floor.

For 24k, id say the Type R was more than enough of a bargin, considering all the go-fast goodies it came with. Anyone who has driven any other FWD vehicle like the Prelude, Celica GTS, GSR will know what im talking about. In all, surely the R isnt the fastest, best handling car out there, but i think most of you guys will agree that for its time and maybe even today, it is one of the best performance/bargin cars ever.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What did you expect from such a crowd? Did you expect them to jump for joy over your R?

I think it's highly unfair for you to make such bold statements about having to have a certain "maturity level" to own an R or whatever just because you were hanging out with a bunch of ********.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I completely agree. While it is a very fun car to drive, There seems to be a aura around some R owners that really tends to bother me. A car is just a car, while it may be fun to drive, and look striking its just a car.

Dont get me wrong i think R's are great, mabye a little too hyped up in their owners minds, but is still a very stout handling car.

-sander