Ok firstly a little about my setup...

I'm running a spoon engine with the following

spoon headers, comptech intake, custom 2.5 exhaust, Power FC, spoon TB.. My figures are as follows, (NOTE POWER FIGURES ARE VERY DIFF BETWEEN US AND AUS)
http://redlineau.com/forum/mod...o.php

I'm basically chasing alot more torque and midrange power. I have done some research and have found (correct me if Im wrong) Toda B's to be my cam of choice.

I was just wonderig if any one has found skunk 2, BC, Jun to be advantageous over Toda B's... Furthermore, I'm willing to upgrade my valve train to match..

Reccomendations please.....

 

Question: Why are you looking to gain midrange power with a motor designed to make it's power way up high?

 

Toda Bs sound like what you need, but remember what Opie said...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jansenrw &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Reccomendations please.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Make up your mind... your car needs to be driven uprange...

 

Sp00n engines need T66 turbos.

Also, what opie said.

 

Do you have Spoon cams? I would not put Toda cams in a Spoon engine.

 

if you want more midrange then get a smaller tb

 

vs



Time for Hondata, before cams? Just an idea.

Comparing my 5000 rpm torque vs yours, and considering your specific complaint, it seems to be a logical conclusion to make.

Tell us more about the modifications already on the car.

 

I've got some Spec C's for sale...check my sig for a link.

 

Well, i know it ALL depends on the tuning of the car. Im sure that there's more power to be made in 1 way or another but before you look into diff. cams, you might want to consider tuning options such as the software/hardware and who tunes the car for you.

Also, i stopped by http://www.importreview.com and under their performance section, there were a few dyno graphs that i took a look at. Now i don't know how reliable this website is with their dyno charts and if they are bias in anyway. I just wanted to make a note of their stuff and make the dyno plots that they have as a reference. You might want to take a look at them.

This is the Toda Spec B vs the JUN 3's

Here were some of the comments made-

The same header was used in the tests, and the DC 4-1 was chosen because it is the most common. Adequate tuning was made on each cam because of the Apex V-AFC. The head was totally stock, meaning it was not milled, and had no port and polish at all. The intake manifold was a Skunk2 with an Iceman intake. These runs are with CAT on. The graph makes sense. The JUN cams have more duration, so it made more peak HP. The cams have the same lift on the VTEC cams..(at least on the intake cam). I am probably going to have to recommend the JUN cams, if you want peak HP for several reasons.

#1 They are much easier to tune....the VTEC point on the JUN's was around 5600, while the Toda cams were around 6500. Also, the primary lobes are much bigger on the Toda cams, and this requires some micro tuning at low RPM's for the car to idle good. And even so, the car does not idle the same as before, its slightly rougher. Not bad, just not the same.

#2 Due to the high VTEC point of the Toda Cams, aftermarket tuning equipment to change VTEC point is required for maximum potential. But, you could use a P28 brain with the JUN 3's, or any brain with a high VTEC point, and it would be ok. You will need a fuel pressure regulator, which I suggest you get for both.

#3 Since the Toda Cams are larger, in just about every aspect except the lift on the intake cam, it makes sense that they will put more stress on your valve train. Note, you CANNOT use Web Valve train with Toda cams. You must use Toda valve train. This is costly, but well worth it, they last a long time and I have heard of no problems. With the JUN cams, you can use WEB or any aftermarket springs with them because they are not a big cam. I consider them medium size.

#4 They are both very expensive cams. Decide if you want these things before you make the commitment. They require you to rev your motor very high to get the most power out of them. And as you know, the higher you rev your motor, the shorter it will last. But that's drag racing for you...

I think this was a good test because the head was not ported. Also, if you are considering head porting, make sure the head porting company has the cams you are going to use. This is important to improve airflow appropriately. There are several motors running over 200 HP at the wheels with Toda cams and a bunch running JUN cams. Make your decision...they are both good racing cams.

This one right here is Toda Spec C vs, JUN type 3 vs. Stock ITR



BLUE LINE; 220.9 HP, 141.7 TQ =JUN 3

RED LINE; 208.3 HP, 141.1 TQ =Type-R

GREEN LINE; 215.2 HP, 135.6 TQ = Toda C

Note the color's of the torque lines for each cam. The JUN 3's torque at 8,000 RPM are clearly 5+ lbs of torque higher than either the Type-R or Toda Cams. The Toda Spec C's started to surpass the Type-R cams in HP and TQ at about 8100 RPM.

21 dyno passes were made on each cam to tune them. The 21'st run was very close the potential of these cams on the close to stock ECU we use. DFI or other better ECU's would surely net more power. Note: The JUN valve train, and JUN ECU were not used in this test.
5 were on timing,
6 were on Fuel pressure
6 were on Cam gear settings
4 were micro tuning fuel with a Apex V-AFC

The Toda's base lined at the starting, settings of: 39 PSI fuel on 310 injectors, cam gears 0.0 and timing at 17 degrees. They base lined at 210 at 131 lbs of torque.

The Jun Type 3's base lined at the starting settings at 217 with about 137 lbs of torque.

The Type-R cams base lined at about 202 HP, and the largest gain came when I moved the intake cam to +4, where it immediately gained 5 HP at the wheels. The exhaust cam ended up at +4 and that made the mid range on the type-R's jump up about 10 HP at the wheels....you can see by the chart...the Type-R cams just dominate up to a certain RPM.

This motor once again was a:
LS/VTEC
1.8 ltr
Aftermarket Pistons
Eagle Rods
Stock Crank
Ported GS-R head with ports re-shaped like a B16A
Type-R intake manifold
Type-R throttle body, 62 MM
Iceman primary intake piece and Advanced concepts secondary piece extending the 3" pipe out of the headlight with a K&N filter on it.
Custom header made my Atomic Performance (not for sale)
Muffler shop $80 special 2.5 inch exhaust, all the way to back, no cat.
Greddy 310 Injectors
Stock GSR oil pump, Stock GSR water pump
Morosso Cool can for fuel
Aftermarket radiator, thin (light)
AEM cam gears

The results did not come out as I anticipated, but I tried my best to make the test as fair as possible.

Looks like on our LS/VTEC Motor, the JUN 3's are a good choice for drag racing...obviously you want the Type-R cams for the street.

First 5 runs of each test were made on 92 octane.
Second 5 runs were made on VP 103 unleaded
The remaining 11 runs were made on C-12 leaded.

There was very little to no difference in HP or torque from using any of the higher octane gases over 92 octane pump gas. The C-12 netted a gain of about 1 HP or so above 7,000 RPM.


Question: What are the best cams for a motor with super high air flow?

Answer: Apparently, the high duration of the JUN 3's works well with a motor that breaths very well.
RATING: JUN Type 3's 96% Mid range could have been better.
RATING: Toda Spec C's 90% Good Cams, Good peak power.
RATING: Type-R 85% Great cams for the money. The best mid range power in our test, perfect idle, good torque.

Comments: JUN 3 cams, a great choice no matter what kind of head you have. The Toda Spec C's netted the 2nd highest horsepower reading at the wheels of all of the cams we have ever tested. So they are still a very good choice. Type-R cams? Honda knows what they are doing...look at that midrange power!
----------------------------------------------

I hope this may have helped.