Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks alot guys. i appreciate all the info. right now we're just gonna tune the type r on a conservative 5 psi (car doesnt have a boost controller to up the psi. car's run n on a 5 lb spring)once he gets the boost controller we'll only raise boost to 8 psi max</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously though, 8 PSI 'could' be too much (or kinda weak) depending on the setup. Just stay under 300 WHP, seems to be a magic number, whatever the PSI is.

boosted k20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Seriously though, 8 PSI 'could' be too much (or kinda weak) depending on the setup. Just stay under 300 WHP, seems to be a magic number, whatever the PSI is. </TD></TR></TABLE>

i'll keep that in mind. thanks again

PM-Performance

depends on tooooo many things.
Id say if you want the car to last for a while. dont go too much over 300whp. If you wanna make numbers and drive it for a little. I can see maybe 325-350 really really pushing it on race gas.

boost doesnt mean anything man . Just tells you how hard your turbo needs to work to make the power.

MostlyR1303

If you get it tuned, 10 psi should be fine. The key is to get it tuned. Bigger fuel injectors, and an aftermarket pump/rail also wouldn't hurt. It would be added insurance for you motor.

Dr Pooface

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I can see maybe 325-350 really really pushing it on race gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Race gas won't help the ringlands or the rods. I'd stay below 320hp on stock internals. Others have run 400hp+ on stock sleeves with just rods and pistons.

rizen

I'm running a precision 60-1 turbo, stock bottom end, and tuned with the ems. I'm currently putting down max hp of 294 to the wheels @ 6psi and 93 octane.

I'm running at 6psi and get an occasional creep to about 9psi...

I'm worried like ****, but if it goes, it goes.

edit: It pulls like a son ofa bitch ...


Modified by r1zen at 7:00 AM 2/24/2005

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Race gas won't help the ringlands or the rods. I'd stay below 320hp on stock internals. Others have run 400hp+ on stock sleeves with just rods and pistons.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So.. uhh.. who are "others" anyway? What kind of numbers? I'm going to be running 9:1 JE Pistong/Eagle rods shortly.... Hopefully my setup can handle it without creeping. Probably keep it "down" to &lt;300 WHP for the track though.

-Chris

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by r1zen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">294 to the wheels @ 6psi and 93 octane.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good example, his 6 PSI is the same as my 10 PSI power-wise. (Fear the boost creep!)

PM-Performance

Rods are stronger than you think . its the ringlands that is the prob. No race race gas wont help those. but you can make a little more power with some timing in it with race gas. I still wouldnt go over 300whp on stock internals. Im just saying if you wanna make the numbers you can do it, but it wont last.

FOrSfEd

I to agree about not going over 300 on a stock bottom end.

Dr Pooface

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris F &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So.. uhh.. who are "others" anyway? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Austrian Type R from this board is one.

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dr Pooface &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Austrian Type R from this board is one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll have to see what he's running.. I'm kinda curios what the boundaries of the stock sleeves are.

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cool. i was only gonna run 10 psi max. but i was wondering since this is a high compression motor, i might run into problems. i'll just retard timing a little bit more for higher boost numbers</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does higher compression have to do with it? I honestly wouldn't worry about it until you start boosting insane PSI...Lowering compression simply makes the driving during "no boost" more intolerable.

PM-Performance

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What does higher compression have to do with it? I honestly wouldn't worry about it until you start boosting insane PSI...Lowering compression simply makes the driving during "no boost" more intolerable.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Compression has everything to do with it. Higher compression is harder to make the numbers on pump gas due to detonation.
Lower compression is eaiser to make numbers on pump gas becuase you can keep putting timing in and running more boost to make more power without Ping.

Ive seen stock sleeves go well over 500whp already and stock rods getting almost that much .

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Compression has everything to do with it. Higher compression is harder to make the numbers on pump gas due to detonation.
Lower compression is eaiser to make numbers on pump gas becuase you can keep putting timing in and running more boost to make more power without Ping.

Ive seen stock sleeves go well over 500whp already and stock rods getting almost that much . </TD></TR></TABLE>

So to compensate for lower compression, you up the boost. But if you're running higher compression, you won't need as much...that high compression myth is just a result of bad tuning. Tune it right and it won't be important.

PM-Performance

no it really isnt a myth.

Compression will determine octane needed to make certain levels of hp.

Yea on lower compression you will need more boost in most cases to make the power a higher compression motor will make, but not allways. Sometimes just adding the timing back in that you cant with higher compression might do the trick.

But yes, on a WELL TUNED high compression motor with forged internals you can make tons of power, it just WONT be on pump gas.

Trust me , ive had high compression , lowe compression, super low compression , middle of the way compression, big turbos, little turbos,little nitrous, alot of nitrous, all motor.
I have a decent clue of the differences

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no it really isnt a myth.

Compression will determine octane needed to make certain levels of hp.

Yea on lower compression you will need more boost in most cases to make the power a higher compression motor will make, but not allways. Sometimes just adding the timing back in that you cant with higher compression might do the trick.

But yes, on a WELL TUNED high compression motor with forged internals you can make tons of power, it just WONT be on pump gas.

Trust me , ive had high compression , lowe compression, super low compression , middle of the way compression, big turbos, little turbos,little nitrous, alot of nitrous, all motor.
I have a decent clue of the differences </TD></TR></TABLE>

Would you consider 11:1 too high for moderate boost? (i.e. under 12 or 13 psi)

Chris F

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Klemgold &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would you consider 11:1 too high for moderate boost? (i.e. under 12 or 13 psi)</TD></TR></TABLE>

It would kick *** on race gas. But at some point, that volatile gas crammed into that little chamber is gonna detonate whether there's a spark or not.

10.5:1 was easy enough to tune up to 300 WHP without knock/preignition. That doesn't mean the OEM ringlands will last all that long, but no knock. Why make it any harder by using higher compression?

Plus, with lower compression, I can make road trips across Mexico on 85 octane.

PM-Performance

stock cast internals? YES
Forged internals? No, but you will be running race gas alot to keep it from detonating.
Also 12-13 psi on what turbo?
12-13psi on a T67 might make 415+whp
12-13psi on a td05 might make 280-290whp.
Big difference.

Black R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
12-13psi on a T67 might make 415+whp</TD></TR></TABLE>


.....that sounds about right for what I want.

Justin Klemgold

I'm talking 6 psi, JRSC, on 11:1 compression...

PM-Performance

oh thats nuthing then. JRSC on that psi prob wont even make over 280whp

What people dont seem to understand is the lack of relevance boost has on anything. Its the horsepower that means everything.

Justin Klemgold

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh thats nuthing then. JRSC on that psi prob wont even make over 280whp

What people dont seem to understand is the lack of relevance boost has on anything. Its the horsepower that means everything. </TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, I'm just making sure we're on the same train of thought here...I believe and have even seen 11:1 compression handle boost fine until you get up into the insane category...11:1 compression and beefed internals on a JRSC is easily done even at 10 psi.

11:1 compression yielded 232 hp on a buddy's GSR at 6 PSI on the JRSC.

vtec.dc2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted k20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey just wondering what is the max boost pressure u can run on a stock internal Type R? is 10 psi overkill if the car is being tuned by a standalone ems?</TD></TR></TABLE>

has little to do with psi, different setups make different hp at same psi, but i'd say low 200whp if you want it to last longer and be safer, otherwise, its unikely to last long. more hp = more wear. besides, your motor isn't brand new so it has some wear as it is.

BoostR41

I ran a thick head gasket for 3 years and daily drove the car. never was on a dyno but times are in my sig. I ran 12-14psi daily and up to 17psi at the track on a race gas mix with right around 300whp(guessing by trap speed). when we took the motor apart everything was perfect. it is all in how you drive and the set up you use.

PS- I run a TD05H-18G like Chris does. if you want to know what kind of power stock parts take call inline pro. I believe brian fishers hatch with stock sleeves went high 9's in the 1/4 and it is a street car. I also think Jinxproof put down some insane #'s back in the day on stock internals with inline pro head gasket