Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S
09-24-2006, 08:39 AM
#51
B*a*n*n*e*d
Once I raced a '98 Prelude with a JDM Type-S swap... Destroyed him, COMPLETELY destroyed him by about 5 car lengths at the top of third gear.
A few weeks ago I raced a bolt-on BB6 Prelude Type-SH. He was spraying a 50 shot of Nitrous, and he couldn't even stay at my rear bumper. I pulled about a car length on him.
(My ITR is bolt-on... TODA Header, Omni-Power Testpipe, DC Sports Exhaust, AEM 3" Intake... That's it)
That takes care of straight line. Through turns? Hahahaha, ITR would come out victorious in that category as well, no contest.
Preludes are heavy. Which means it's going to take a LOT more work to make them perform any better at all.
I'd say go with an RSX Type-S, or Integra Type-R (A bit cheaper, better performance). Good solid cars, great power, great torque, amazing balance, mild yet attractive aesthetics... Perfect car in my mind.
A few weeks ago I raced a bolt-on BB6 Prelude Type-SH. He was spraying a 50 shot of Nitrous, and he couldn't even stay at my rear bumper. I pulled about a car length on him.
(My ITR is bolt-on... TODA Header, Omni-Power Testpipe, DC Sports Exhaust, AEM 3" Intake... That's it)
That takes care of straight line. Through turns? Hahahaha, ITR would come out victorious in that category as well, no contest.
Preludes are heavy. Which means it's going to take a LOT more work to make them perform any better at all.
I'd say go with an RSX Type-S, or Integra Type-R (A bit cheaper, better performance). Good solid cars, great power, great torque, amazing balance, mild yet attractive aesthetics... Perfect car in my mind.
09-24-2006, 09:08 AM
#53
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (crxgator)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crxgator »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yup they are aware...they have to run the VIN in order to give you a proper quote and policy...
for what it's worth i pay 200 a month...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea, I know they run the VIN, but, for example, my car is a CRX and they think its a Civic. They have the correct VIN, but I told them on the phone I have a Civic CRX and all they cared about was the first word I mentioned......Civic. In the past I have told insurance companies that it was specifically a CRX and the premioums seemed to be higher. I didn't lie, just worded it differently. I don't know how much they really pay attention to VIN.
Either way, that is a good price fo you if it is only $50 more than your CRX, UNLESS they were raping you on your CRX.
yup they are aware...they have to run the VIN in order to give you a proper quote and policy...
for what it's worth i pay 200 a month...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yea, I know they run the VIN, but, for example, my car is a CRX and they think its a Civic. They have the correct VIN, but I told them on the phone I have a Civic CRX and all they cared about was the first word I mentioned......Civic. In the past I have told insurance companies that it was specifically a CRX and the premioums seemed to be higher. I didn't lie, just worded it differently. I don't know how much they really pay attention to VIN.
Either way, that is a good price fo you if it is only $50 more than your CRX, UNLESS they were raping you on your CRX.
09-24-2006, 09:17 AM
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IMO:
prelude: chepest, fun but heavy daily driver
RSX-S: Pricy, very fun on tracks and roads, you will probably want to spend more money modding...
ITR: One the holy grail cars, will go up in value as time goes by, probably not easy to find and won't be cheap
prelude: chepest, fun but heavy daily driver
RSX-S: Pricy, very fun on tracks and roads, you will probably want to spend more money modding...
ITR: One the holy grail cars, will go up in value as time goes by, probably not easy to find and won't be cheap
09-24-2006, 10:41 AM
#55
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (DC2IntegraTypeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2IntegraTypeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
In all honesty the Type S' K20A with i-VTEC is much superior to the B18C.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not necessarily.
The K-series certainly has its nice features. Namely an improved ECU, more displacement, square bore & stroke dimensions, increased valve area in the cylinder head and a roller-rocker valvetrain.
But the exhaust port design is jenky (doglegged ports on 1 and 4, round shape, not significantly larger than B-series ports), the bottom end is a bit weak, and VTC, touted as improving mid-range torque, is, in stock form, little more than a glorified EGR system used more to clean up emmissions than to actually add power.
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A.
In all honesty the Type S' K20A with i-VTEC is much superior to the B18C.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not necessarily.
The K-series certainly has its nice features. Namely an improved ECU, more displacement, square bore & stroke dimensions, increased valve area in the cylinder head and a roller-rocker valvetrain.
But the exhaust port design is jenky (doglegged ports on 1 and 4, round shape, not significantly larger than B-series ports), the bottom end is a bit weak, and VTC, touted as improving mid-range torque, is, in stock form, little more than a glorified EGR system used more to clean up emmissions than to actually add power.
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A.
09-24-2006, 11:14 AM
#56
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (MK Ultra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not necessarily.
The K-series certainly has its nice features. Namely an improved ECU, more displacement, square bore & stroke dimensions, increased valve area in the cylinder head and a roller-rocker valvetrain.
But the exhaust port design is jenky (doglegged ports on 1 and 4, round shape, not significantly larger than B-series ports), the bottom end is a bit weak, and VTC, touted as improving mid-range torque, is, in stock form, little more than a glorified EGR system used more to clean up emmissions than to actually add power.
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Guess you could say the answer varies. I was thinking JDM K20A when I typed up that reply. Which includes everything you wrote plus it's lighter than the B18C, includes cool stuff like an extra gear and chromoly flywheel. Dunno I was dailying my R before and for the longest time I felt like it need an extra gear to cruise in on the freeway.
The K-series certainly has its nice features. Namely an improved ECU, more displacement, square bore & stroke dimensions, increased valve area in the cylinder head and a roller-rocker valvetrain.
But the exhaust port design is jenky (doglegged ports on 1 and 4, round shape, not significantly larger than B-series ports), the bottom end is a bit weak, and VTC, touted as improving mid-range torque, is, in stock form, little more than a glorified EGR system used more to clean up emmissions than to actually add power.
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Guess you could say the answer varies. I was thinking JDM K20A when I typed up that reply. Which includes everything you wrote plus it's lighter than the B18C, includes cool stuff like an extra gear and chromoly flywheel. Dunno I was dailying my R before and for the longest time I felt like it need an extra gear to cruise in on the freeway.
09-24-2006, 11:24 AM
#57
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (DC2IntegraTypeR)
Personally, I think the extra gear is superfluous, and not worth the compromise in strength necessary to fit six gears in a smaller space than the B-series' five. I also absolutely hate cable shifter linkages, which the K-series use.
Then again, I like turning ~4,000 rpm at 80 mph. I like the more immediate throttle response, and it seems to be the most fuel-efficient cruising rpm for my motor. I also prefer the simpler shift pattern of a 5-speed transmission, as there's always a good place for reverse.
And yes, all K20s are both externally smaller and lighter than the B18C. Nice, but once again it requires some compromise (the aforementioned doglegged exhaust ports, necessary to avoid an oil passage which wouldn't be in the way if the engine were externally larger).
As for the chromoly flywheel, I've never driven a car with the JDM K20A-R motor. But the U.S.-spec K20As I've driven all felt like they had about an 80-lb. flywheel. And I'd probably replace the clutch/flywheel as the first mod on any motor in my cars anyway, so, for me at least, it's moot.
[edit] grammar
Then again, I like turning ~4,000 rpm at 80 mph. I like the more immediate throttle response, and it seems to be the most fuel-efficient cruising rpm for my motor. I also prefer the simpler shift pattern of a 5-speed transmission, as there's always a good place for reverse.
And yes, all K20s are both externally smaller and lighter than the B18C. Nice, but once again it requires some compromise (the aforementioned doglegged exhaust ports, necessary to avoid an oil passage which wouldn't be in the way if the engine were externally larger).
As for the chromoly flywheel, I've never driven a car with the JDM K20A-R motor. But the U.S.-spec K20As I've driven all felt like they had about an 80-lb. flywheel. And I'd probably replace the clutch/flywheel as the first mod on any motor in my cars anyway, so, for me at least, it's moot.
[edit] grammar
09-24-2006, 01:25 PM
#58
Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (MK Ultra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i'm not a engine builder or anything but from what i seen.. I think..
seems like most B's aim to break 200 whp .. oviously if you bore it out and go all out.. you can probably reach 250 ish whp from B?
K's ? dont they make close to 300 whp n/a?..
but yeah anyways.. back to this guys point
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not that i cant decide what car i want, it more or less deciding what is better than the ITR, other than an S2k or nsx. the rsx and lude were the two better cars that came to mind, just in case i cant find one when i come to purchase one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this guy thinks rsx and lude are better than ITR.. so this thread should have never been existing
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
i'm not a engine builder or anything but from what i seen.. I think..
seems like most B's aim to break 200 whp .. oviously if you bore it out and go all out.. you can probably reach 250 ish whp from B?
K's ? dont they make close to 300 whp n/a?..
but yeah anyways.. back to this guys point
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not that i cant decide what car i want, it more or less deciding what is better than the ITR, other than an S2k or nsx. the rsx and lude were the two better cars that came to mind, just in case i cant find one when i come to purchase one.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this guy thinks rsx and lude are better than ITR.. so this thread should have never been existing
09-24-2006, 01:52 PM
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (Jon D)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jon D »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Buy a KIA 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha, why don't get any American Brand, then you don't need to worry about daily car/ weight / performance . . .
Remember this is Type R forum. In U.S. there are no Prelude R or DC5 R, but DC2 Does. Only Integra Type R has R spirit.
You HAVE to get a light weight car with Double Wishbone Suspension. Neither the Prelude or RSX can combine like Integra.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Haha, why don't get any American Brand, then you don't need to worry about daily car/ weight / performance . . .
Remember this is Type R forum. In U.S. there are no Prelude R or DC5 R, but DC2 Does. Only Integra Type R has R spirit.
You HAVE to get a light weight car with Double Wishbone Suspension. Neither the Prelude or RSX can combine like Integra.
09-24-2006, 02:44 PM
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (MK Ultra)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MK Ultra »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not necessarily.
The K-series certainly has its nice features. Namely an improved ECU, more displacement, square bore & stroke dimensions, increased valve area in the cylinder head and a roller-rocker valvetrain.
But the exhaust port design is jenky (doglegged ports on 1 and 4, round shape, not significantly larger than B-series ports), the bottom end is a bit weak, and VTC, touted as improving mid-range torque, is, in stock form, little more than a glorified EGR system used more to clean up emmissions than to actually add power.
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think the K vs B argument has been beaten to death by now and now there are plenty of dyno's of varying set-ups that shows that the K has pretty much outshined the B in all categories. You can't fault a motor because of some crazy ports.
The head flows better, more displacement, a six speed, and isn't any heavier than a B. I think its a fair statement to say that the K is superior to the B.
To be honest, I don't think people care if their is a weird design as long as it performs, and the K does perform quite well.
Not necessarily.
The K-series certainly has its nice features. Namely an improved ECU, more displacement, square bore & stroke dimensions, increased valve area in the cylinder head and a roller-rocker valvetrain.
But the exhaust port design is jenky (doglegged ports on 1 and 4, round shape, not significantly larger than B-series ports), the bottom end is a bit weak, and VTC, touted as improving mid-range torque, is, in stock form, little more than a glorified EGR system used more to clean up emmissions than to actually add power.
IMO, it's really a trade-off. A K-series will make lots of power with fewer mods than a B-series, but in a money-no-object build, a bored-out B-series will make pretty close to the same power as a heavily-modded K20A. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think the K vs B argument has been beaten to death by now and now there are plenty of dyno's of varying set-ups that shows that the K has pretty much outshined the B in all categories. You can't fault a motor because of some crazy ports.
The head flows better, more displacement, a six speed, and isn't any heavier than a B. I think its a fair statement to say that the K is superior to the B.
To be honest, I don't think people care if their is a weird design as long as it performs, and the K does perform quite well.
09-24-2006, 03:35 PM
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (itr1244)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr1244 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
seems like most B's aim to break 200 whp .. oviously if you bore it out and go all out.. you can probably reach 250 ish whp from B?
K's ? dont they make close to 300 whp n/a?..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never seen a 300 whp n/a K-series. And I'm skeptical of 300 whp claims on these motors.
Like I said before, the K-series can make great power with relatively few mods, but in a money-no-object build, there's not what I'd call a significant advantage. It all boils down to a few factors, these being displacement, volumetric efficiency and engine management. And when comparing a 2.0L B-series to a 2.0L K-series, the K has an undisputed advantage in engine management (which is more helpful in creating a smooth powerband than outright power) and a slight advantage in volumetric efficiency (which would be greater were it not for the crappy exhaust-port design), and no advantage in displacement.
I've already listed my reasons for preferring the B-series transmission, so I won't bother to rehash them.
Your preferences needn't conform to mine, but I still think it folly to claim either engine to be generally superior to the other.
seems like most B's aim to break 200 whp .. oviously if you bore it out and go all out.. you can probably reach 250 ish whp from B?
K's ? dont they make close to 300 whp n/a?..
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I've never seen a 300 whp n/a K-series. And I'm skeptical of 300 whp claims on these motors.
Like I said before, the K-series can make great power with relatively few mods, but in a money-no-object build, there's not what I'd call a significant advantage. It all boils down to a few factors, these being displacement, volumetric efficiency and engine management. And when comparing a 2.0L B-series to a 2.0L K-series, the K has an undisputed advantage in engine management (which is more helpful in creating a smooth powerband than outright power) and a slight advantage in volumetric efficiency (which would be greater were it not for the crappy exhaust-port design), and no advantage in displacement.
I've already listed my reasons for preferring the B-series transmission, so I won't bother to rehash them.
Your preferences needn't conform to mine, but I still think it folly to claim either engine to be generally superior to the other.
09-24-2006, 04:46 PM
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (Circuit Star-29)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Circuit Star-29 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
RSX-s = decent motor in a poorly setup vehicle..(suspension wise)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
as far as shock/spring go, then yes i will have to agree. But other then that ide have to say that you are BS. a good shock/coilover setup IE: tein flex with proper adjusting/tuning makes out to be a pretty well balanced car. The RSX-S has a very stiff chassis believe it or not. It's just the weight that kills it....and the only other weak point i can see as far as handling issues go is that it needs an LSD terribly. Ohh, and im sure it would help trumendously if the sunroof wasnt there
RSX-s = decent motor in a poorly setup vehicle..(suspension wise)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
as far as shock/spring go, then yes i will have to agree. But other then that ide have to say that you are BS. a good shock/coilover setup IE: tein flex with proper adjusting/tuning makes out to be a pretty well balanced car. The RSX-S has a very stiff chassis believe it or not. It's just the weight that kills it....and the only other weak point i can see as far as handling issues go is that it needs an LSD terribly. Ohh, and im sure it would help trumendously if the sunroof wasnt there
09-24-2006, 04:57 PM
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (#1151)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by #1151 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
as far as shock/spring go, then yes i will have to agree. But other then that ide have to say that you are BS. a good shock/coilover setup IE: tein flex with proper adjusting/tuning makes out to be a pretty well balanced car. The RSX-S has a very stiff chassis believe it or not. It's just the weight that kills it....and the only other weak point i can see as far as handling issues go is that it needs an LSD terribly. Ohh, and im sure it would help trumendously if the sunroof wasnt there </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's not about springs/shocks, it's the whole design and geometry. It's not ideal. I don't have details, but there is some kind of binding issue on lowered RSX's. If I'm not mistaken, the Realtime RSX has extenisve modifications to the rear suspension.
as far as shock/spring go, then yes i will have to agree. But other then that ide have to say that you are BS. a good shock/coilover setup IE: tein flex with proper adjusting/tuning makes out to be a pretty well balanced car. The RSX-S has a very stiff chassis believe it or not. It's just the weight that kills it....and the only other weak point i can see as far as handling issues go is that it needs an LSD terribly. Ohh, and im sure it would help trumendously if the sunroof wasnt there
</TD></TR></TABLE>It's not about springs/shocks, it's the whole design and geometry. It's not ideal. I don't have details, but there is some kind of binding issue on lowered RSX's. If I'm not mistaken, the Realtime RSX has extenisve modifications to the rear suspension.
09-24-2006, 05:30 PM
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Re: Integra Type R vs Prelude vs RSX Type S (Utilitarian)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Utilitarian »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Get an RSX-S. It's a no brainer because it's got the most power and that's all that matters.
The Prelude is in second place with 200 and the ITR is dead last at 195. Plus, girls looooove Preludes. In fact, alot of them drive one.
Simple...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can guarantee you I get waaay more girls in my ITR than if I had a prelude.....
And power isn't everything...The R is faster stock caust of pure weight vs power, and it handles better than either...
the suspension no a stock R rivals that of older ferraris putting down I believe a .92 on the skid.
The R is a race car, yea you can daily drive it, but its built for cornering and decent accerlation of top end handling.
The other 2 are just daily drivers with a little pep....K20 is a great engine and will all in all make more power than a B ever could all motor.
The Prelude is in second place with 200 and the ITR is dead last at 195. Plus, girls looooove Preludes. In fact, alot of them drive one.
Simple...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can guarantee you I get waaay more girls in my ITR than if I had a prelude.....
And power isn't everything...The R is faster stock caust of pure weight vs power, and it handles better than either...
the suspension no a stock R rivals that of older ferraris putting down I believe a .92 on the skid.
The R is a race car, yea you can daily drive it, but its built for cornering and decent accerlation of top end handling.
The other 2 are just daily drivers with a little pep....K20 is a great engine and will all in all make more power than a B ever could all motor.
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