Racer

Both cars stock how do they match in straight line acceleration and on a road race. If the M3 is faster what does the R needs to keep up. I am talking about the old M3 the E36 NOT the new one E46 M3.

Willard

Stock for stock (equal drivers)... E36 will be faster (straight & on track)

With I/H/E/tires/brake pads.... and some weight loss... the R may be the same speed.

Will
-who would love to own a E30 ///M

Back in Black

dan = e36 full interior/stock

jason = dc2 type R stripped/toda b's/i/h/e lightweight wheels

kept up with dan in the turns extremely well, but got my 455 handed to me in the straights. too much damn torque in that bavarian beast!!!

jason- who will conspire with will to steal the red e30 that runs carguys events

citanest

To be honest, my friend, who is a good driver, smoked more E36 M3 at the road course than you can imagine. Only the E36 Euro Spec M3 can hang in with him at the road course. His car puts about 180whp, not very impressive, and the other M3's have basic bolts on.

Not sure if it's only on straight line though.

Back in Black

sorry, but i call bullchit on this one...

Johnny Tran

i agree......bavarian beast, hands down

spiderman

My previous car was a E36 M3 euro.
It is damm fast.
3 litre 6 cyl 286hp and 310Nm
The stock ITR is quick not fast!!!

tecnic1

the new M3 with the SMG option.....chrome. Alos more then twice the msrp for the teg type r

Wai

Even with equal drivers, a stock E36 M3 cannot take any advantage from a stock ITR.
Power to weight ratio is almost identical; therefore, almost no difference on the straights. I'm not talking about drag racing. I'm talking about the straight aways on a race track.
M3 has great advantage on torque to weight ratio, so it can exit a turn much quicker BUT because of the heavier weight, it has to brake much earlier before entering the turn. So the torque advantage when exiting a turn is only for the M3 to catch up the distance that was lost when entering that turn.

Apex i ITR

The other day I pulled on 2 M3's that were trying to be ********. They might have been auto's and we were on the highway. It was a pretty long run. Most times I was either in front or they were with neither gaining ground (I would slowly start to gain but then we'd hit traffic and slow down.

The final run we were all pretty much neck and neck. I dropped and pulled maybe the most about half a car to a car length and then turned off the highway. Maybe they couldn't drive.

This was in my hybrid before you start calling BS.

Back in Black

My conclusion was based on the front and back straights of VIR. Not exactly a drag race...

Jason- who loves VIR

ITR764

keith- who will be at the feb 23/24 speedtrials and wants to fall in love with vir

Wai

Uninformed type R bigots? Haha ok.

Anyway, here are a few facts that you can't dispute:
E36 is ~500lbs heavier.
E36 brakes is insufficient for track use.
ITR's and E36's power to weight ratio is almost the same.
I've been joining the Windy City Chapter events for a few years and have run head to head with countless E36 M3s on several tracks.

Uninformed Type R bigots? Hmmm well I don't see the necessities of calling people names.

DutchITR1689

And tell us why did you trade the M3 for a ITR?

DutchITR1689

Can someone post some specs of the USDM M3 like power, weight etc.? So, we europeans know what you are talking about.....

G_S_R

yeah I'd like to see some M3 specs as well since I'm thinking about getting one(95/96 or 98). the new ones cost way too much.

Ron

VTEC4GS

ont he circle track the driver will prevail but straight ways, braking, handling, ergm looks, the E36 all the way. Have you driven the new M3 yet ? just sick, very sick and revs up like an ITR with ITBs and open header.

Greg

Warren

With EQUAL drivers, stock v stock, the M3 is faster.

Did I mention equal? Skill levels the same. Not lumped into the same run group on a track. That doesn't mean ****.

Warren

Cold Chunker

I'd have to agree. The Type R is great out on the track....esp when I get the point by from a new Vette. Always makes me think...."that dude should've left me behind." The M3's should do the same - they have the power onthe straights and they handle the turns as well. I still enjoy those point-bys though!

nEoMuGen

My impression is identical accleration also, if any, very little bits of pulling away. I got my conclusion off LimeRockPark's front straight and back straights....it happens when I drive the car and also happens when instructors drove both cars to demonstrate. At the corners...not much of diff....I acutally passed him once when he got too slow, but that's a driver's issue.

And when I was young (ok, so it's just one year ago)...I street raced three M3s that were having fun on an empty parkway at 2am...they drove pass me 100+, from 70, I down 3rd, and thanks for some cars that slow them down a bit, I catchup immediately and never lose a pace afterward for around 5 minutes of fun drives. I wasn't even trying to beat them, just want to follow them and see what they are upto...after 5 minutes, cars starts to appear and they start to weave in and out, then I quit and drive normal again...we were upto 130mph at the time...and they only pull up inches from me on the stock R.




[Modified by nEoMuGen, 6:40 PM 1/2/2002]

JSpecwest

Crusing along on the freeway and dropped third on an M3. I got the jump but it wasnt long before he was in front of me. I seriously got my *** handed to me. It wasnt even close.

Ibuprofen

the real steve c
Honda-Tech Member

398 posts [1%]
Denver / Seattle CO / WA

first time i've seen a 1% user rating..

Ross

That's cause he hit on too many men...and pissed the Kill Moderator off by posting such technically verbose topics as "I want to watch your mother ****".

Steve C =

to keep this on topic - I don't see how an ITR with minor mods couldn't keep up with a more or less stock M3. Let's say an ITR with a good intake/header/exhaust/cat will put out around 215hp, up from 195 stock. The E36 M3 has 240 hp, but is much heavier (unless it's the lightweight version) and has more driveline loss (the one disadvantage to RWD) than the FWD ITR. Keeping in mind what Wai said about the M3 having to brake earlier...would it be safe to say that a skilled driver might turn similar times in both cars if the ITR were breathing a little heavier than normal?

This could also depend on the track - ie. length, overall speed, corner speeds.


[Modified by Ross, 10:46 PM 1/2/2002]

Black SVT

I find it funny when a bunch of ITR owners that have modded ITR's have a hard time beating a stock E36.All I have done is Intake,and a header.My interior is typically removed also.A close friend of mine has a 95 E36 the lightest model avaible exept the lightweight.It has no power options and no sunroof.
He and I have ran numerous times and are dead even.At the track he and I ran it was his 14.09@??to my 14.07@100.5.His car is on par with exactly what an E36 should run.Any of you that have more mods than I do shouyld be able to beat them.If you are not the cause of the loss is YOU and not the fact that the BMW is a faster car.
Darth,not flaming here,but if you have Toda cams and all the other stuff to go with it you should be able to destroy that guy.I have way less mods than you and have raced my friends and some random guy in a 98 and both were the same out come DEAD even.I was pulling on the 98 until about 75 then he slowly started making it back up on me.

PMTypeR

I've driven a '97 M3 (my boss' )... That thing is sick.

The torque on those beasts is amazing... well balanced car! and hands down faster than a Type R!

oh well