Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it?
04-23-2003, 08:30 PM
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Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it?
Since many of us have driven Beaver Run, let's hear your setup and what you like and don't like about it on this track.
As for my car,
<u>Tires:</u> Toyo RA-1 F225/50-15 R205/50-15
<u>Wheels:</u> Kosei 15x7
<u>Brakes:</u> Front Ferodo DS3000, Rear Endless NA-S pads, Motul fluid, SS lines, Spoon 4-pot calipers, MC brace but I lost the adjusting bolt so it was useless!
<u>Suspension:</u> F20K(1120#) R16K(896#) springs, KYB SSG race coilovers, pillowball uppermount, front stock sway bar, Mugen rear 26mm sway bar, front 10mm spacer (~0.4") spacer, rear 5mm spacer
<u>Alignment:</u> F-3.5 R-2.8 camber, F0 R0 toe
<u>Ride Height:</u> Front with 225/50 tire - 12.5cm to lowest jacking point (or 595mm to fender lip), Rear with 205/50 tire - 12.5cm to lowest jacking point (or 595mm to fender lip)
<u>Engine:</u> 5Zigen 4-2-1 JDM header, high flow cat, Spoon TB
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
The car has a LOT of grip. Even at the end of the session with the tires all heated up, the car still gripped really well. No understeer, but no oversteer either.
Since my engine is basically stock, the drivewheel diameter being larger, and with stock gearing, the front tires never really broke loose even on the tight uphill turn 11. But that turn also made me "feel" underpower even tho I was in vtec.....
Because of that, I'm starting to feel that maybe I could actually back down to a F205/50 R195/55 combo so that the rotational mass would be less and I would still have some good grip. Or keep the F225 R205 combo but upgrade the FD and flywheel. I believe the latter would benefit more, but more money.
Beaver Run is a pretty smooth track so my high spring rates didn't make me and my passengers suffer much. Even tho I didn't bottom out, I still need to raise the front ride height up a bit because I experienced a slight rubbing on the fender liner. Not a big deal tho.
Brakes were awesome. Since this track isn't too hard on brakes (lots of cool down time), there's no real complain in that department. The rear pads need to be upgraded tho as when I braked from a high speed (after the kink), the tail wiggled and I had to be careful with my line.
Frank (GhettoRacer) has driven my car for a session and he gave me some very good and honest feedback. He said the car isn't as communicative as he expected and the vagueness might came from chassis flex caused by the high spring rates. A well-built cage should be able to take care of that. He also commented that the car has a LOT of grip. It didn't push, and if stayed on throttle, the tail won't go anywhere either.
Maybe a little tail motion would make the car faster around corners? I can try that by changing the rear camber.
So here are a list of things that should solve some of the bugs on my car:
1) Cage
2) Final drive/ltw flywheel (if I keep the F225 R205 combo)
3) Decrease rear camber to -2
4) Upgrade rear brake pads
This pic shows how low my car is. It's less than one finger gap:
-3.5 front camber, but you can see the tires were worn out pretty evenly across the tread:
Modified by Wai at 1:55 PM 4/24/2003
As for my car,
<u>Tires:</u> Toyo RA-1 F225/50-15 R205/50-15
<u>Wheels:</u> Kosei 15x7
<u>Brakes:</u> Front Ferodo DS3000, Rear Endless NA-S pads, Motul fluid, SS lines, Spoon 4-pot calipers, MC brace but I lost the adjusting bolt so it was useless!
<u>Suspension:</u> F20K(1120#) R16K(896#) springs, KYB SSG race coilovers, pillowball uppermount, front stock sway bar, Mugen rear 26mm sway bar, front 10mm spacer (~0.4") spacer, rear 5mm spacer
<u>Alignment:</u> F-3.5 R-2.8 camber, F0 R0 toe
<u>Ride Height:</u> Front with 225/50 tire - 12.5cm to lowest jacking point (or 595mm to fender lip), Rear with 205/50 tire - 12.5cm to lowest jacking point (or 595mm to fender lip)
<u>Engine:</u> 5Zigen 4-2-1 JDM header, high flow cat, Spoon TB
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
The car has a LOT of grip. Even at the end of the session with the tires all heated up, the car still gripped really well. No understeer, but no oversteer either.
Since my engine is basically stock, the drivewheel diameter being larger, and with stock gearing, the front tires never really broke loose even on the tight uphill turn 11. But that turn also made me "feel" underpower even tho I was in vtec.....
Because of that, I'm starting to feel that maybe I could actually back down to a F205/50 R195/55 combo so that the rotational mass would be less and I would still have some good grip. Or keep the F225 R205 combo but upgrade the FD and flywheel. I believe the latter would benefit more, but more money.
Beaver Run is a pretty smooth track so my high spring rates didn't make me and my passengers suffer much. Even tho I didn't bottom out, I still need to raise the front ride height up a bit because I experienced a slight rubbing on the fender liner. Not a big deal tho.
Brakes were awesome. Since this track isn't too hard on brakes (lots of cool down time), there's no real complain in that department. The rear pads need to be upgraded tho as when I braked from a high speed (after the kink), the tail wiggled and I had to be careful with my line.
Frank (GhettoRacer) has driven my car for a session and he gave me some very good and honest feedback. He said the car isn't as communicative as he expected and the vagueness might came from chassis flex caused by the high spring rates. A well-built cage should be able to take care of that. He also commented that the car has a LOT of grip. It didn't push, and if stayed on throttle, the tail won't go anywhere either.
Maybe a little tail motion would make the car faster around corners? I can try that by changing the rear camber.
So here are a list of things that should solve some of the bugs on my car:
1) Cage
2) Final drive/ltw flywheel (if I keep the F225 R205 combo)
3) Decrease rear camber to -2
4) Upgrade rear brake pads
This pic shows how low my car is. It's less than one finger gap:
-3.5 front camber, but you can see the tires were worn out pretty evenly across the tread:
Modified by Wai at 1:55 PM 4/24/2003
04-23-2003, 08:49 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
Swap the springs!
Seriously, have you ever TRIED it? I run 14k F / 18k R, and a custom big rear bar. Oh, and yes, you need a cage to take advantage of spring rates that high. Your chassis is probably crying in pain.
Warren
Seriously, have you ever TRIED it? I run 14k F / 18k R, and a custom big rear bar. Oh, and yes, you need a cage to take advantage of spring rates that high. Your chassis is probably crying in pain.
Warren
04-23-2003, 08:53 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (dawhiteboy)
Nice write up Wai!!
I was hoping for a picture of drunken Wai.
Wai's car felt AWESOME, at least from a passenger standpoint. VERY well planted, endless traction, and the stiff suspension was very nice. Even when we were on the backing plates of those Ferodo 3000's.
My info goes like this:
Stock Suspension
23mm rear sway
Mugen F&R upper strut bars
Millenia wheels, 205/50/15 falkens
Mugen Intake, Toduh Header, Carsound Cat, Fujitsubo RM-01A exAst
Cobalt gt-r v.spec (vr) fronts and axxis ultimate rear brake pads, ATE superbl00
My car felt very good, but more often than not, right before T11, I was letting off the gas right before Turn In to the right kink, as I had tremendous body roll and I felt/heard (singing tires on track out!!) that my tires were just about at max adhesion.
I didn't have anything to adjust suspension-wise. I did adjust my tire pressures, at first I had low rear psi to cancel out some of the lift-throttle oversteer I had available to me. On sunday, I jacked up the rear pressure quite a bit and to my suprise I found that the car was more responsive and still not terribly tail happy.
Anyhoo.. no pics. My tires look pretty damned good after 3000 street/highway miles and 284 track miles at BeaveRun and Gingerman from this past weekend. They are miles ahead the s-03's i used at gingerman last october. For whatever reason, i have -2 degrees rear camber on my stock suspension, just about dead-on spec in the front. Toe was 1/8 total out in front and zero in rear. Even tire wear all the way around. Pads were awesome, no fade after two days, no fade after/during gingerman either!
No complaints. The body roll was actually welcomed, it let me know I was actually pushing the car in most spots.
Modified by Chris N at 12:13 AM 4/24/2003
I was hoping for a picture of drunken Wai.
Wai's car felt AWESOME, at least from a passenger standpoint. VERY well planted, endless traction, and the stiff suspension was very nice. Even when we were on the backing plates of those Ferodo 3000's.
My info goes like this:
Stock Suspension
23mm rear sway
Mugen F&R upper strut bars
Millenia wheels, 205/50/15 falkens
Mugen Intake, Toduh Header, Carsound Cat, Fujitsubo RM-01A exAst
Cobalt gt-r v.spec (vr) fronts and axxis ultimate rear brake pads, ATE superbl00
My car felt very good, but more often than not, right before T11, I was letting off the gas right before Turn In to the right kink, as I had tremendous body roll and I felt/heard (singing tires on track out!!) that my tires were just about at max adhesion.
I didn't have anything to adjust suspension-wise. I did adjust my tire pressures, at first I had low rear psi to cancel out some of the lift-throttle oversteer I had available to me. On sunday, I jacked up the rear pressure quite a bit and to my suprise I found that the car was more responsive and still not terribly tail happy.
Anyhoo.. no pics. My tires look pretty damned good after 3000 street/highway miles and 284 track miles at BeaveRun and Gingerman from this past weekend. They are miles ahead the s-03's i used at gingerman last october. For whatever reason, i have -2 degrees rear camber on my stock suspension, just about dead-on spec in the front. Toe was 1/8 total out in front and zero in rear. Even tire wear all the way around. Pads were awesome, no fade after two days, no fade after/during gingerman either!
No complaints. The body roll was actually welcomed, it let me know I was actually pushing the car in most spots.
Modified by Chris N at 12:13 AM 4/24/2003
04-23-2003, 08:55 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Warren)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Swap the springs!
Seriously, have you ever TRIED it? I run 14k F / 18k R, and a custom big rear bar. Oh, and yes, you need a cage to take advantage of spring rates that high. Your chassis is probably crying in pain.
Warren</TD></TR></TABLE>
Even with 225F/205R tires? Wai is a firm believer in alignment settings with smaller rear tires damn JDM ******.. lol j/k Wai
Seriously, have you ever TRIED it? I run 14k F / 18k R, and a custom big rear bar. Oh, and yes, you need a cage to take advantage of spring rates that high. Your chassis is probably crying in pain.
Warren</TD></TR></TABLE>
Even with 225F/205R tires? Wai is a firm believer in alignment settings with smaller rear tires
damn JDM ******.. lol j/k Wai
04-23-2003, 08:55 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (dawhiteboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dawhiteboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Some Yuengling 
, camp fire, tent and lots of blankets.
Night sucked, daytime was nice.</TD></TR></TABLE>
, camp fire, tent and lots of blankets.Night sucked, daytime was nice.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
04-23-2003, 09:00 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (dawhiteboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dawhiteboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Even with 225F/205R tires? Wai is a firm believer in alignment settings with smaller rear tires damn JDM ******.. lol j/k Wai</TD></TR></TABLE>
Swap springs, and run it usdm style, Y. 225's in the rear.
Even with 225F/205R tires? Wai is a firm believer in alignment settings with smaller rear tires
damn JDM ******.. lol j/k Wai</TD></TR></TABLE>Swap springs, and run it usdm style, Y. 225's in the rear.
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04-23-2003, 09:07 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Chris N)
I run 205/50-15 toyos all the way around. Oh, and crank up the rear tire pressures too. If it ain't loose, it's no fun.
Warren
Warren
04-23-2003, 09:10 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Chris N)
My car isn't 'set-up' yet. 
Hmmmm camber kits or race suit......? 
Expo setup:
~ -2 deg camber F/R
Quickie eyeball toe
205/50/12 Victos F/R
Panther XP F
Hawk HPS R
Unbled-for-8-months ATE Super Blue
Tein HA, stock rates (8k F/6k R)
& a cage.
Hmmmm camber kits or race suit......? Expo setup:
~ -2 deg camber F/R
Quickie eyeball toe
205/50/12 Victos F/R
Panther XP F
Hawk HPS R
Unbled-for-8-months ATE Super Blue
Tein HA, stock rates (8k F/6k R)
& a cage.
04-23-2003, 09:10 PM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
First and foremost.... THANK YOU Wai ! Thanks for the awesome experience, getting to ride in a ITR that could almost be mine, well, with some mods. I think the ride you gave me is what I talk about most when my friends ask me about the Expo (Kaa Show) I went to in Pennsylvania. I really have to say the high point was getting to ride in your R, and experiencing the G-forces around 9,10, or 11... can't really remember which it was.
Also, I keep telling people, that I want to learn how to DRIVE !
WOW...... I wanted to ask you what all you had going with the suspension, but since you just told me it was all stock I sorta believed you. Even though I knew it wasn't stock height!
Also, you did a great write up on all your experiences from the track !
Well, so when there is something big in Chicago.... please count me in, if you haven't heard much or anything from me. Feel free to contact me whenever.
Thanks Again!
Also, I keep telling people, that I want to learn how to DRIVE !
WOW...... I wanted to ask you what all you had going with the suspension, but since you just told me it was all stock I sorta believed you. Even though I knew it wasn't stock height!
Also, you did a great write up on all your experiences from the track !
Well, so when there is something big in Chicago.... please count me in, if you haven't heard much or anything from me. Feel free to contact me whenever.
Thanks Again!
04-24-2003, 12:20 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Ryan_C)
to Wai...I will finally scan some pictures of your car on the track soon. Things have been super busy the last 24 hours. I'll try to scan something tomorrow afternoon. Got some nice pics of you in the first few turns.
04-24-2003, 03:19 AM
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what tire pressures were you running? 225/50's are freak'n wide. 4lbs more in the back tires will make rotation/throttle steer much easier.
Just curious - what kind of ballpark lap times were you able to run?
Your car is awesome....I want suspension!!!
Just curious - what kind of ballpark lap times were you able to run?
Your car is awesome....I want suspension!!!
04-24-2003, 03:56 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
George's ITR
<u>Tires:</u> 215-45-16 Falkin Azenis, 30psi(f) 35psi(r) cold
<u>Wheels:</u> 16x7.5 (?) Spoons
<u>Brakes:</u> Front Ferodo DS3000(1/2 worn when we put them on Saturday morning), Hawk blacks rear, old bubbled up ATE..
<u>Suspension:</u> Konis, GC's 400F 500R
<u>Alignment:</u> 1/16th total out in front, 0 toe rear
<u>Ride Height:</u> eyeballed
<u>Engine:</u> SMS intake, SMS Header, carsound cat, SMS exhaust, hondataS100, stock ecu, and Hondata S200 ( we tried lots of ECUS that weekend) (untuned)
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
<U>Safety</U> Autopower 4 pt roll bar, SParco 5 point harnesses.
<u>Tires:</u> 215-45-16 Falkin Azenis, 30psi(f) 35psi(r) cold
<u>Wheels:</u> 16x7.5 (?) Spoons
<u>Brakes:</u> Front Ferodo DS3000(1/2 worn when we put them on Saturday morning), Hawk blacks rear, old bubbled up ATE..
<u>Suspension:</u> Konis, GC's 400F 500R
<u>Alignment:</u> 1/16th total out in front, 0 toe rear
<u>Ride Height:</u> eyeballed
<u>Engine:</u> SMS intake, SMS Header, carsound cat, SMS exhaust, hondataS100, stock ecu, and Hondata S200 ( we tried lots of ECUS that weekend
) (untuned)<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
<U>Safety</U> Autopower 4 pt roll bar, SParco 5 point harnesses.
04-24-2003, 04:07 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wai »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1) Cage
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is the one thing you really need for yourself , the stiffness is an added bonus...
1) Cage
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this is the one thing you really need for yourself , the stiffness is an added bonus...
04-24-2003, 04:09 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
<u>Tires:</u> Pirelli 205/50/15 (bald as a onion)
<u>Wheels:</u> Sp00m 15x6.5
<u>Brakes:</u> Front Ferodo DS3000, Rear OE, ATE Supa Bl00
<u>Suspension:</u> Stock with: 21mm front bar and swapped upper front a-arms, rear JDM upper strut bar.
<u>Alignment:</u>
__________LF_____RF
camber: (-0.77)_(-0.79)
caster:..(+3.15)_(+3.03)
toe:......(+0.02)_(+0.01)
__________LR_____RR
camber: (-0.62)_(-1.36)
toe:......(+0.08)_(+0.10)
<u>Engine:</u> JDM header, high flow cat, VAFC
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
What I did not like was the 'hoopty like' soft ride. The track was fast... but more friction between the tires and pavement would have been nice. I was sliding everywhere. Yack said when I turned in a one I left 3 black marks thru the turn.
A better alignment and more camber (F&R) is planned next.
(I suspect my slight impact at Summit has skewed my drivers front settings off a bit)
Track was very fun and the ITR is suited well for it.
<u>Wheels:</u> Sp00m 15x6.5
<u>Brakes:</u> Front Ferodo DS3000, Rear OE, ATE Supa Bl00
<u>Suspension:</u> Stock with: 21mm front bar and swapped upper front a-arms, rear JDM upper strut bar.
<u>Alignment:</u>
__________LF_____RF
camber: (-0.77)_(-0.79)
caster:..(+3.15)_(+3.03)
toe:......(+0.02)_(+0.01)
__________LR_____RR
camber: (-0.62)_(-1.36)
toe:......(+0.08)_(+0.10)
<u>Engine:</u> JDM header, high flow cat, VAFC
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
What I did not like was the 'hoopty like' soft ride. The track was fast... but more friction between the tires and pavement would have been nice. I was sliding everywhere. Yack said when I turned in a one I left 3 black marks thru the turn.
A better alignment and more camber (F&R) is planned next.
(I suspect my slight impact at Summit has skewed my drivers front settings off a bit)
Track was very fun and the ITR is suited well for it.
04-24-2003, 05:20 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Willard)
Great post guys, very informative to say the least. I look forward to experimenting with different setups on-track.
My setup was: Stock 92kmi suspension, falkens and 15x7.5" K1's. Camber/caster-who knows. The car felt somewhat unstable when flat-footing through the back straightaway and kink. I thought it felt very good in the turns, but there's much room for improvement.
My setup was: Stock 92kmi suspension, falkens and 15x7.5" K1's. Camber/caster-who knows. The car felt somewhat unstable when flat-footing through the back straightaway and kink. I thought it felt very good in the turns, but there's much room for improvement.
04-24-2003, 06:50 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
<u>Tires:</u> Falken Azenis 205/50-15
<u>Wheels:</u> Kosei K1 15x7
<u>Brakes:</u> Front - Cobalt GT spec VR, Rear - Stock, Fluid - Ate Super Blue
<u>Suspension:</u> Stock
<u>Alignment:</u> Don't remember the camber offhand but toe should have been F0/R0.2
<u>Ride Height:</u> Stock
<u>Engine:</u> Spoon 4-2-1, Carsound Cat, T1R Bpipe, Spoon N1 and the Icebox w/stock elbow + K&N drop in filter.
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
I'm still a track n00b but this is how I felt about my car.
Only time I'd fubar a turn was because of driver error. Not because the lack of grip or whatnot. I do admit that with slightly higher spring rates or perhaps even better damping would make the car feel a lot better (a tad too much dive at the end of the straights, a tad too much roll between 5 and 6 uphill section toward the kink/back straight - again, what I felt not what maybe correct
). The tires did overheat a bit approximately 2/3s into a session but taking it easy for a lap brought them back to complete the session.
Hopefully, I'll make some upgrades during the summer and I can revisit this thread afterwards.
<u>Wheels:</u> Kosei K1 15x7
<u>Brakes:</u> Front - Cobalt GT spec VR, Rear - Stock, Fluid - Ate Super Blue
<u>Suspension:</u> Stock
<u>Alignment:</u> Don't remember the camber offhand but toe should have been F0/R0.2
<u>Ride Height:</u> Stock
<u>Engine:</u> Spoon 4-2-1, Carsound Cat, T1R Bpipe, Spoon N1 and the Icebox w/stock elbow + K&N drop in filter.
<u>Transmission:</u> Stock
I'm still a track n00b but this is how I felt about my car.
Only time I'd fubar a turn was because of driver error. Not because the lack of grip or whatnot. I do admit that with slightly higher spring rates or perhaps even better damping would make the car feel a lot better (a tad too much dive at the end of the straights, a tad too much roll between 5 and 6 uphill section toward the kink/back straight - again, what I felt not what maybe correct
). The tires did overheat a bit approximately 2/3s into a session but taking it easy for a lap brought them back to complete the session.Hopefully, I'll make some upgrades during the summer and I can revisit this thread afterwards.
04-24-2003, 06:53 AM
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
<u>Tires</u>: 195/55/15 RE-010 w/ 40% thread depth. 29psi cold which was later changed to 34psi cold.
<u>Wheels</u>: Millenia 15x6" +50mm
<u>Brakes</u>: Cobalt GT-sports F/R, ATE "blue" fluid, MC brace
<u>Suspension</u>: F8K R6K springs, Mugen lowdowns 1f/2r, front stock sway bar, JDMrear 23mm sway bar, f/r strut bars
<u>Alignment</u>: No idea, should've probably had it done before the event.
<u>Ride Height</u>: 3/4" drop all the way around.
<u>My evaluation</u>:
I felt a bit skittish around the track. I think the main culprit was the alignment and undersized tires. 15x7" or 16x7" wheels w/ better tires (Azenis or KDW) would've provided more stability, IMO.
<u>Changes for next rack day</u>:
Track dedicated pads (calling Andie) + rollbar + 16x7" w/ 215 or 205 rubber.
<u>Wheels</u>: Millenia 15x6" +50mm
<u>Brakes</u>: Cobalt GT-sports F/R, ATE "blue" fluid, MC brace
<u>Suspension</u>: F8K R6K springs, Mugen lowdowns 1f/2r, front stock sway bar, JDMrear 23mm sway bar, f/r strut bars
<u>Alignment</u>: No idea, should've probably had it done before the event.
<u>Ride Height</u>: 3/4" drop all the way around.
<u>My evaluation</u>:
I felt a bit skittish around the track. I think the main culprit was the alignment and undersized tires. 15x7" or 16x7" wheels w/ better tires (Azenis or KDW) would've provided more stability, IMO.
<u>Changes for next rack day</u>:
Track dedicated pads (calling Andie) + rollbar + 16x7" w/ 215 or 205 rubber.
04-24-2003, 07:27 AM
#19
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Cosworth)
Me:
Stock suspension
Carbotech Panther Plus in the front, OEM rear (changed to Axxis Ultimates in rear on Day 2), old ATE Super Blue fluid
Falken Azenis on 15x7 K-1s
Pressure: 38lbsF/35R
Engine has advanced timing and I/H/E crap
Actually felt really loose under braking and whenever I'd lift. Going through the kink was really hairy until I started flat-footing it.
At the end of every straight, I was incurring ABS, causing a little smoke, and the tail was wagging considerably, even with better pads on the rear on Day 2.
For my part, I have no plans to make any changes. I only have a few track events left with this car. A nicer suspension and a JDM FD would be nice though.
Stock suspension
Carbotech Panther Plus in the front, OEM rear (changed to Axxis Ultimates in rear on Day 2), old ATE Super Blue fluid
Falken Azenis on 15x7 K-1s
Pressure: 38lbsF/35R
Engine has advanced timing and I/H/E crap
Actually felt really loose under braking and whenever I'd lift. Going through the kink was really hairy until I started flat-footing it.
At the end of every straight, I was incurring ABS, causing a little smoke, and the tail was wagging considerably, even with better pads on the rear on Day 2.
For my part, I have no plans to make any changes. I only have a few track events left with this car. A nicer suspension and a JDM FD would be nice though.
04-24-2003, 07:30 AM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Cosworth)
Tires: F'n Azenis, 205/50 R15
Wheels: Sp00m ripoffs (rota slipstream)
Suspension: 450/600 (lb./in.) eibachs, GC coilover sleeves dropped eyeball stylez, shocktek/bilstein dampers, left rear of which was COMPLETELY BLOWN the ENTIRE WEEKEND i think (explains bouncy right handers)
Brakes: Aging Panther + in front, newish Axxis Ultimates in rear, old ATE uber-blu
Engine/tranny: DC Header, Comptech icebox, ATS 4.929 FD
Alignment: From a while ago, a hint of toe-out in front, zero toe rear, much more camber than before.
Other pertinent: Kw00z control, Sparco Evo, Sabelt 5-points, autopower 4-point rollbar
Evaluation: I was much more courageous on this track day than the first time I was there, and actually felt more in control than I ever have at a track, which was a great feeling. Was a bit worried I'd be a total backmarker in advanced, but I was totally at ease and that helped my driving immensely. The car handled beautifully, especially considering I had zero damping on the left rear corner on day 2, questionable damping on day 1. Those 600 rates probably helped negate the blown damper. I just need to play with my driver and pedal positions so i can effectively heel-toe in track-braking conditions, and I need to focus on consistency of line.
Wheels: Sp00m ripoffs (rota slipstream)
Suspension: 450/600 (lb./in.) eibachs, GC coilover sleeves dropped eyeball stylez, shocktek/bilstein dampers, left rear of which was COMPLETELY BLOWN the ENTIRE WEEKEND i think (explains bouncy right handers)
Brakes: Aging Panther + in front, newish Axxis Ultimates in rear, old ATE uber-blu
Engine/tranny: DC Header, Comptech icebox, ATS 4.929 FD
Alignment: From a while ago, a hint of toe-out in front, zero toe rear, much more camber than before.
Other pertinent: Kw00z control, Sparco Evo, Sabelt 5-points, autopower 4-point rollbar
Evaluation: I was much more courageous on this track day than the first time I was there, and actually felt more in control than I ever have at a track, which was a great feeling. Was a bit worried I'd be a total backmarker in advanced, but I was totally at ease and that helped my driving immensely. The car handled beautifully, especially considering I had zero damping on the left rear corner on day 2, questionable damping on day 1. Those 600 rates probably helped negate the blown damper. I just need to play with my driver and pedal positions so i can effectively heel-toe in track-braking conditions, and I need to focus on consistency of line.
04-24-2003, 08:14 AM
#21
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it?
Originally Posted by Warren
Swap the springs!
Seriously, have you ever TRIED it? I run 14k F / 18k R, and a custom big rear bar. Oh, and yes, you need a cage to take advantage of spring rates that high. Your chassis is probably crying in pain.
Seriously, have you ever TRIED it? I run 14k F / 18k R, and a custom big rear bar. Oh, and yes, you need a cage to take advantage of spring rates that high. Your chassis is probably crying in pain.
Originally Posted by dawhiteboy
Even with 225F/205R tires? Wai is a firm believer in alignment settings with smaller rear tires damn JDM ******.. lol j/k Wai
damn JDM ******.. lol j/k Wai
Originally Posted by Warren
I run 205/50-15 toyos all the way around. Oh, and crank up the rear tire pressures too. If it ain't loose, it's no fun.
Originally Posted by sackdz
Tein HA, stock rates (8k F/6k R) & a cage.
Originally Posted by Ryan_C
WOW...... I wanted to ask you what all you had going with the suspension, but since you just told me it was all stock I sorta believed you. Even though I knew it wasn't stock height!
Originally Posted by BudMan
what tire pressures were you running? 225/50's are freak'n wide. 4lbs more in the back tires will make rotation/throttle steer much easier.
Just curious - what kind of ballpark lap times were you able to run?
Just curious - what kind of ballpark lap times were you able to run?
As for lap times... I have no idea. I was keeping up well with the rest of the group. IIRC, I only gave out pass signals to Blake's and Robert's cars (damn those yell00 cars). I'm sure there were a few others (Wes, Clayton) that were at least the same, if not faster than me. Just that they were probably on the other side of the track so we never got a chance to run with each other.
Originally Posted by Doctor CorteZ
this is the one thing you really need for yourself , the stiffness is an added bonus...
Originally Posted by Ross
Actually felt really loose under braking and whenever I'd lift. Going through the kink was really hairy until I started flat-footing it.
At the end of every straight, I was incurring ABS, causing a little smoke, and the tail was wagging considerably, even with better pads on the rear on Day 2.
At the end of every straight, I was incurring ABS, causing a little smoke, and the tail was wagging considerably, even with better pads on the rear on Day 2.
Everyone else, thanks a lot for sharing your information.
04-24-2003, 08:31 AM
#22
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
set up of my kaa....
TIRE: Kumho Vict. Racer 205/50/15 38psi (front) -- 36psi(rear) {hot pressure}
WHEELS: 15x6 Mazda wheels
BRAKE: Ferodo DS3000 front, Axxis Ultmiate rear, Unconnect MC brace
SUSPENSION: KYB SSG coilover (same as Wai's) F12K, R8K springs. Stock OEM uppermount, Stock sway bar.
ALIGNMENT: 0 toe, front and rear
RIDE HEIGHT: F 598cm --- R 613cm from fender lip to ground.
MOD: Stock engine, stock tranny, Apex N1 cat-back.
AT the track: My car has good grip for the whole weekend until the last session of the 2nd day... the left front tire got too hot and start loosing traction. I then drove a wider line and the situation got better after few laps. I also had some brake issue on the first day....which make me slow down somehow. As for the ride....I got very little understeer and feel very control at all time. I did some trail-brake at the second day and feel very comforable about it.
Ask for improvment: I believe if I run 7j wheel instead of 6j.....it will get even better. I also think a little more aggressive read brake pad can balance out the braking perfromance better.
I like the BeaverRun track, it fast and good fun, I wish they finish the south course soon and I will go back there for the full course.
TIRE: Kumho Vict. Racer 205/50/15 38psi (front) -- 36psi(rear) {hot pressure}
WHEELS: 15x6 Mazda wheels
BRAKE: Ferodo DS3000 front, Axxis Ultmiate rear, Unconnect MC brace
SUSPENSION: KYB SSG coilover (same as Wai's) F12K, R8K springs. Stock OEM uppermount, Stock sway bar.
ALIGNMENT: 0 toe, front and rear
RIDE HEIGHT: F 598cm --- R 613cm from fender lip to ground.
MOD: Stock engine, stock tranny, Apex N1 cat-back.
AT the track: My car has good grip for the whole weekend until the last session of the 2nd day... the left front tire got too hot and start loosing traction. I then drove a wider line and the situation got better after few laps. I also had some brake issue on the first day....which make me slow down somehow. As for the ride....I got very little understeer and feel very control at all time. I did some trail-brake at the second day and feel very comforable about it.
Ask for improvment: I believe if I run 7j wheel instead of 6j.....it will get even better. I also think a little more aggressive read brake pad can balance out the braking perfromance better.
I like the BeaverRun track, it fast and good fun, I wish they finish the south course soon and I will go back there for the full course.
04-24-2003, 08:33 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Wai)
Ok, let me give it a shot:
Tires: Falken Azenis; 205/50-15 all around.
Wheels: volk te37's, 15x7 +43 with 5mm spacers in the front (to clear the calipers).
Brakes: Front Endless NA-R, Rear stock pads, Motul fluid, APP SS lines, Spoon 4-pot calipers in front.
Suspension: Apex-i N1 coilovers - 99 spec with F11K(500#) R5K(250#) springs, new conical pillowball uppermount, Cusco front upper strut tower bar.
Alignment: whatever dumping the n1's does to your suspension without a realignment.....
Ride Height: Front and rear, 4 inches to lowest jacking point = dumped.
Engine: aem cai, hytech header, custom 2.5" mandrel exhaust to Apex-i n1 can.
Transmission: stock itr with ATS 4.9 final drive, TODA clutch, TODA flywheel.
Day 1, I ran with stock suspension. I also have Endless cc-x rear pads - but was too lazy to ever install them... I must say that this is only the 2nd road course I've ever driven on... and much faster than little Talladega. Stock suspension is awesome. I never knew how much this was true till I got it on the beaver... I felt that I got faster and faster as the day progressed, though. Azenis are crazy sticky as well!!! I especially enjoyed turns 1-5, as these are very much like what I'm accustomed to; autox! I was very comfortable in that section of the track.
Day 2 I ran with the apex-i n1 coilovers. The rates sound way too understeer prone, and so I ran 1/2 stiff all around in my first session... then I ran full stiff all around for my next session. I was then able to get a little oversteer by accident with some lift throttle/ trail braking one time. I was slower in my first session of day 2, than in my last session of day 1. Why? Well, I felt like I had to relearn the car all over again! I feel that my last session of day 2 was my fastest. I think the Apex-i n1's have a higher cornering limit, but how high I just don't know. It's obviously understeer prone judging from the spring rates, but cornering is now flatter, and it's very n00b friendly with no surprises. Since I autox a lot, I'm going to order some 12k and 18k springs and try those out in the rear. Also considering a mugen 26mm rear sway bar.
As far as power, the mods george knighton's car has to make close to 200whp would be nice... other than that, I'll keep messing with little things to get the power up... still wondering what the ats 3,4,5 gearset would be like as well.....
Modified by Black R at 1:28 AM 5/4/2003
Tires: Falken Azenis; 205/50-15 all around.
Wheels: volk te37's, 15x7 +43 with 5mm spacers in the front (to clear the calipers).
Brakes: Front Endless NA-R, Rear stock pads, Motul fluid, APP SS lines, Spoon 4-pot calipers in front.
Suspension: Apex-i N1 coilovers - 99 spec with F11K(500#) R5K(250#) springs, new conical pillowball uppermount, Cusco front upper strut tower bar.
Alignment: whatever dumping the n1's does to your suspension without a realignment.....
Ride Height: Front and rear, 4 inches to lowest jacking point = dumped.
Engine: aem cai, hytech header, custom 2.5" mandrel exhaust to Apex-i n1 can.
Transmission: stock itr with ATS 4.9 final drive, TODA clutch, TODA flywheel.
Day 1, I ran with stock suspension. I also have Endless cc-x rear pads - but was too lazy to ever install them...
I must say that this is only the 2nd road course I've ever driven on... and much faster than little Talladega. Stock suspension is awesome. I never knew how much this was true till I got it on the beaver... I felt that I got faster and faster as the day progressed, though. Azenis are crazy sticky as well!!! I especially enjoyed turns 1-5, as these are very much like what I'm accustomed to; autox! I was very comfortable in that section of the track.Day 2 I ran with the apex-i n1 coilovers. The rates sound way too understeer prone, and so I ran 1/2 stiff all around in my first session... then I ran full stiff all around for my next session. I was then able to get a little oversteer by accident with some lift throttle/ trail braking one time. I was slower in my first session of day 2, than in my last session of day 1. Why? Well, I felt like I had to relearn the car all over again!
I feel that my last session of day 2 was my fastest. I think the Apex-i n1's have a higher cornering limit, but how high I just don't know. It's obviously understeer prone judging from the spring rates, but cornering is now flatter, and it's very n00b friendly with no surprises. Since I autox a lot, I'm going to order some 12k and 18k springs and try those out in the rear. Also considering a mugen 26mm rear sway bar. As far as power, the mods george knighton's car has to make close to 200whp would be nice... other than that, I'll keep messing with little things to get the power up... still wondering what the ats 3,4,5 gearset would be like as well.....
Modified by Black R at 1:28 AM 5/4/2003
04-24-2003, 08:53 AM
#24
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Re: Beaver Run: What was your setup and how did you like it? (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alignment: whatever dumping the n1's does to your suspension without a realignment..... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Hi Ken, if you went from a totally stock suspension to an aftermarket suspension that lowered the car to only 4" to the jacking point, your alignment would be waaaaaaay out of wack. Camber would be ok, but you would get massive toe out in the front. Does your steering wheel unwind itself under normal driving? If you have too much toe (in or out), the steering wheel wouldn't unwind itself.....
</TD></TR></TABLE>Hi Ken, if you went from a totally stock suspension to an aftermarket suspension that lowered the car to only 4" to the jacking point, your alignment would be waaaaaaay out of wack.
Camber would be ok, but you would get massive toe out in the front. Does your steering wheel unwind itself under normal driving? If you have too much toe (in or out), the steering wheel wouldn't unwind itself.....
