what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted
10-28-2003, 10:08 PM
#2
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (tekstyle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tekstyle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i m all ears</TD></TR></TABLE>
it's all about disc ventilation and durability.
Some drilled rotors might have structural flaws pending quality, however they cool faster, but warp easier.
Slotted, doesn't cool as fast but you get the longevity and strength of a blank.
If you need more info, try being all search https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch
it's all about disc ventilation and durability.
Some drilled rotors might have structural flaws pending quality, however they cool faster, but warp easier.
Slotted, doesn't cool as fast but you get the longevity and strength of a blank.
If you need more info, try being all search https://honda-tech.com/zerosearch
10-28-2003, 10:49 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (svtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by svtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">get blanks. trust me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-29-2003, 03:09 AM
#5
Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (onlyNls)
i have brembo cross drilled and slotted and they have served me well. No complaints here. Warping and all that info happens on extreme applications. I dotn think I drive under those conditions through my daily stop and go traffic here in NY. If you want to upgrade the rotors and dont want to pay a premium, i recommend brembo blanks. They should do just fine.
10-29-2003, 06:03 AM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (IntEGNYC)
most people will never put a set of drilled and or slotted brakes to their full potential. you're better off going with a nice set of blanks matched with some aggressive street pads. you'll also save a bit of money that way too
10-29-2003, 06:26 AM
#7
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (fivespeedintegra)
Slotted and drilled are based on old technology.
Brake pads no longer give off gasses when heated up to extreme tempatures, which is what the drills/slots were designed to fix. The gas buildup would need to be vented somehow, so the method of choice became holes or slots.
Now that they no longer give off gas, there is no need to have slots or drills in your rotors. Not only does it take up mass from the rotor, which can no longer hold and disperse heat, it also comparmises the strength of the rotor and can easily lead to cracking around the slots/drills.
Some people get all worked up because companies like porsche still use them. Porsche has admitted they only use them for improved wet braking.
Brake pads no longer give off gasses when heated up to extreme tempatures, which is what the drills/slots were designed to fix. The gas buildup would need to be vented somehow, so the method of choice became holes or slots.
Now that they no longer give off gas, there is no need to have slots or drills in your rotors. Not only does it take up mass from the rotor, which can no longer hold and disperse heat, it also comparmises the strength of the rotor and can easily lead to cracking around the slots/drills.
Some people get all worked up because companies like porsche still use them. Porsche has admitted they only use them for improved wet braking.
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10-29-2003, 07:39 AM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
yup, plus they good. I had drilled rotors on my prelude and auto-x'd 2 full seasons and drove daily and never warped them. They were from powerstop. They never cracked either. THe main thing i noticed was that in the rain i had a good initial "bite" compared to the solids.
10-29-2003, 08:10 AM
#9
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (litlekikr)
Just to be clear, I was saying in my post
"forget the gimmicy drilled/slotted and get blanks".
"forget the gimmicy drilled/slotted and get blanks".
10-29-2003, 08:24 AM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"forget the gimmicy drilled/slotted and get blanks". </TD></TR></TABLE>
Best advice in the thread.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Best advice in the thread.
10-29-2003, 10:45 AM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Slotted and drilled are based on old technology.
Brake pads no longer give off gasses when heated up to extreme tempatures, which is what the drills/slots were designed to fix. The gas buildup would need to be vented somehow, so the method of choice became holes or slots.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uhhhhmmm ... wrong
Brake fade can still happen with modern pads. The brakes on my 240SX used to fade like crazy before I put slotted rotors on it. It might not be as bad with current pads and braking systems, but you can't burn something without releasing vapors. (think, conservation of mass)
Brake pads no longer give off gasses when heated up to extreme tempatures, which is what the drills/slots were designed to fix. The gas buildup would need to be vented somehow, so the method of choice became holes or slots.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uhhhhmmm ... wrong
Brake fade can still happen with modern pads. The brakes on my 240SX used to fade like crazy before I put slotted rotors on it. It might not be as bad with current pads and braking systems, but you can't burn something without releasing vapors. (think, conservation of mass)
10-29-2003, 11:13 AM
#13
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (wcsinx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wcsinx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Uhhhhmmm ... wrong
Brake fade can still happen with modern pads. The brakes on my 240SX used to fade like crazy before I put slotted rotors on it. It might not be as bad with current pads and braking systems, but you can't burn something without releasing vapors. (think, conservation of mass) </TD></TR></TABLE>
uhhhhhm... wrong
brake fade and off gassing are two completely different things. Of cource brake pads fade, I don't think anyone here thinks that you can heat brake pads up to any tempature you want and it won't effec their performance.
The point is that drilled or slotted rotors do not help cool the brake pads like people think. Brakes turn the kenetic energy of a car in motion into heat through friction, that heat is stored and cooled through the rotor.
Drilling and slotting the rotor results in less mass to store heat. Our rotors are internally vented, so the holes and/or slots do not aid in the cooling process.
Uhhhhmmm ... wrong
Brake fade can still happen with modern pads. The brakes on my 240SX used to fade like crazy before I put slotted rotors on it. It might not be as bad with current pads and braking systems, but you can't burn something without releasing vapors. (think, conservation of mass) </TD></TR></TABLE>
uhhhhhm... wrong
brake fade and off gassing are two completely different things. Of cource brake pads fade, I don't think anyone here thinks that you can heat brake pads up to any tempature you want and it won't effec their performance.
The point is that drilled or slotted rotors do not help cool the brake pads like people think. Brakes turn the kenetic energy of a car in motion into heat through friction, that heat is stored and cooled through the rotor.
Drilling and slotting the rotor results in less mass to store heat. Our rotors are internally vented, so the holes and/or slots do not aid in the cooling process.
10-29-2003, 11:15 AM
#14
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
Just wanted to throw my .02 in.....on my 98 Teg I have the EBC slotted/dimpled rotors and Red Stuff pads. Theyve been holding up or almost a year now and they are still awesome. They have bite right from the start, and dont fade at all.
10-29-2003, 11:34 AM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
I will give you some real work stuff here guys first here is a pic of what I do with my Del Sol or Integra at leats one a month.
Before my first track even I put new brembo blanks rotors and new axxis ultimate pads on my Del Sol, car brake well but the brakes did fade, so when I got home I bought some valvoline dot 4 syntech fluid and replaced all the fluid in the car, I also remove the dust shields on my front brakes. And ever since I have not faded my brakes. This year I took my integra LS out on track, all I did was put brand new fluid in and my brakes did not fade. I run with NASA-VA and have ran CMP and Jefferson citcut sevral times since I have done this and had minumal fade.
So what is the Point of this, If I am not fadding my brakes on a road course with no crossdrilled rotors, then why would you need them for a street car or car that is drivin in HPDE. There are several race groups that run with us and I do not recall seeing any racers with cross drilled rotors.
Before my first track even I put new brembo blanks rotors and new axxis ultimate pads on my Del Sol, car brake well but the brakes did fade, so when I got home I bought some valvoline dot 4 syntech fluid and replaced all the fluid in the car, I also remove the dust shields on my front brakes. And ever since I have not faded my brakes. This year I took my integra LS out on track, all I did was put brand new fluid in and my brakes did not fade. I run with NASA-VA and have ran CMP and Jefferson citcut sevral times since I have done this and had minumal fade.
So what is the Point of this, If I am not fadding my brakes on a road course with no crossdrilled rotors, then why would you need them for a street car or car that is drivin in HPDE. There are several race groups that run with us and I do not recall seeing any racers with cross drilled rotors.
10-29-2003, 12:33 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
uhhhhhm... wrong
brake fade and off gassing are two completely different things. Of cource brake pads fade, I don't think anyone here thinks that you can heat brake pads up to any tempature you want and it won't effec their performance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, you do realize that fade is caused by gassing right? They are not "two completely different things". They are two "closely related things". As the temperature of the pad rises, some of the pad material burns off. This burning forms a layer of vapor between the pad and rotor which in turn reduces braking effectiveness causing you to have to apply the brakes harder and harder in order to maintain the same braking power a.k.a. "fade".
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The point is that drilled or slotted rotors do not help cool the brake pads like people think. Brakes turn the kenetic energy of a car in motion into heat through friction, that heat is stored and cooled through the rotor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed, I never said they do. In fact, a slotted or drilled rotor is less effective at dissipating heat because as you stated they simply have less thermal mass. But said heat doesn't have as detrimental an effect on a slotted or drilled rotor because there is a way for the gas to escape.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Our rotors are internally vented</TD></TR></TABLE>
What exactly are you calling internally vented? No flat rotor that I know of is capable of venting. The gas has to go somewhere.
uhhhhhm... wrong
brake fade and off gassing are two completely different things. Of cource brake pads fade, I don't think anyone here thinks that you can heat brake pads up to any tempature you want and it won't effec their performance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, you do realize that fade is caused by gassing right? They are not "two completely different things". They are two "closely related things". As the temperature of the pad rises, some of the pad material burns off. This burning forms a layer of vapor between the pad and rotor which in turn reduces braking effectiveness causing you to have to apply the brakes harder and harder in order to maintain the same braking power a.k.a. "fade".
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The point is that drilled or slotted rotors do not help cool the brake pads like people think. Brakes turn the kenetic energy of a car in motion into heat through friction, that heat is stored and cooled through the rotor. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed, I never said they do. In fact, a slotted or drilled rotor is less effective at dissipating heat because as you stated they simply have less thermal mass. But said heat doesn't have as detrimental an effect on a slotted or drilled rotor because there is a way for the gas to escape.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Our rotors are internally vented</TD></TR></TABLE>
What exactly are you calling internally vented? No flat rotor that I know of is capable of venting. The gas has to go somewhere.
10-29-2003, 12:38 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (Solracer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So what is the Point of this, If I am not fadding my brakes on a road course with no crossdrilled rotors, then why would you need them for a street car or car that is drivin in HPDE. There are several race groups that run with us and I do not recall seeing any racers with cross drilled rotors.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's two ways to deal with fading. Either give the gas a way to escape or don't get your brakes so hot that they start to burn & gas in the first place. Like I said, my 240SXs brakes were somewhat inadequate IMHO for that car. They would heat right up and start fading by the 3rd stoplight. Whereas on my Stealth which was a much heavier and FWD car even never ever faded on me no matter how hard I drove it with stock, smooth rotors. The difference was the rotors on that Stealth were monstrous in comparison to my 240's, the calipers were about twice as big, and hence the pads had about twice the surface area. They stayed cool, and didn't gas in the first place ... no slotting required.
make sense?
There's two ways to deal with fading. Either give the gas a way to escape or don't get your brakes so hot that they start to burn & gas in the first place. Like I said, my 240SXs brakes were somewhat inadequate IMHO for that car. They would heat right up and start fading by the 3rd stoplight. Whereas on my Stealth which was a much heavier and FWD car even never ever faded on me no matter how hard I drove it with stock, smooth rotors. The difference was the rotors on that Stealth were monstrous in comparison to my 240's, the calipers were about twice as big, and hence the pads had about twice the surface area. They stayed cool, and didn't gas in the first place ... no slotting required.
make sense?
10-29-2003, 12:45 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (StyleTEG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
uhhhhhm... wrong
brake fade and off gassing are two completely different things. Of cource brake pads fade, I don't think anyone here thinks that you can heat brake pads up to any tempature you want and it won't effec their performance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
from ... http://www.spdusa.com/brake1.htm
2nd paragraph, line 1
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">fade is caused by gas coming off the pads.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is pretty basic stuff, man. I've been at this for awhile.
uhhhhhm... wrong
brake fade and off gassing are two completely different things. Of cource brake pads fade, I don't think anyone here thinks that you can heat brake pads up to any tempature you want and it won't effec their performance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
from ... http://www.spdusa.com/brake1.htm
2nd paragraph, line 1
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">fade is caused by gas coming off the pads.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is pretty basic stuff, man. I've been at this for awhile.
10-29-2003, 01:09 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (wcsinx)
Fade is caused by your Fluid getting hot and expanding and then cooling , and making your pedal feel spongy and causing you to have to push the pedal further and harder to get the brakes to work, then people think my brakes have faded. If you are "Fadeing" you brakes replace you fluid.
re-peate after me, Modern Brake pads do not outgas period, epsically any pad that is not organic. If you really want to question this I can back my staments up from engineers from both Carbotech and Cobalt Friction
Reference #1 http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.htm
re-peate after me, Modern Brake pads do not outgas period, epsically any pad that is not organic. If you really want to question this I can back my staments up from engineers from both Carbotech and Cobalt Friction
Reference #1 http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.htm
10-29-2003, 01:21 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (wcsinx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wcsinx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, you do realize that fade is caused by gassing right? They are not "two completely different things". They are two "closely related things". As the temperature of the pad rises, some of the pad material burns off. This burning forms a layer of vapor between the pad and rotor which in turn reduces braking effectiveness causing you to have to apply the brakes harder and harder in order to maintain the same braking power a.k.a. "fade".</TD></TR></TABLE>
Horseshit. Fade happens when you get **** too hot. When you get the system too hot, one of two things will happen:
- You've reached the thermal capacity of the pads and they do not grip anymore
- You boiled the brake fluid (this is what usually happens - get a spongy pedal feel).
You can increase the thermal capacity of hte system by installing bigger rotors (bigger heat sink) but 99% of the time this is not necessary - all you need to do is install fresh fluid, good rotors and good pads. If your rotors are worn out then this will contribute to poor stopping distances and pedal feel.
Horseshit. Fade happens when you get **** too hot. When you get the system too hot, one of two things will happen:
- You've reached the thermal capacity of the pads and they do not grip anymore
- You boiled the brake fluid (this is what usually happens - get a spongy pedal feel).
You can increase the thermal capacity of hte system by installing bigger rotors (bigger heat sink) but 99% of the time this is not necessary - all you need to do is install fresh fluid, good rotors and good pads. If your rotors are worn out then this will contribute to poor stopping distances and pedal feel.
10-29-2003, 01:21 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (Solracer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fade is caused by your Fluid getting hot and expanding and then cooling , and making your pedal feel spongy and causing you to have to push the pedal further and harder to get the brakes to work, then people think my brakes have faded. If you are "Fadeing" you brakes replace you fluid.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maaaaan, this is so far off base that I'm not even going to address save for this ... a good part of what absorbs heat in a braking system is the fluid. And old fluid will indeed tend to have a lower latent heat capacity than new fluid. Hence changing your fluid can help a fade condition somewhat.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">re-peate after me, Modern Brake pads do not outgas period, </TD></TR></TABLE>
Repeat after me, you can't burn something without producing waste products the most notable of which is *gasp* vapors. Modern brake systems are better as dissipating heat and are more tolerant of high temperatures. This does not mean that the pads cannot gas. You're trying to argue against fundamental laws of physics here.
Maaaaan, this is so far off base that I'm not even going to address save for this ... a good part of what absorbs heat in a braking system is the fluid. And old fluid will indeed tend to have a lower latent heat capacity than new fluid. Hence changing your fluid can help a fade condition somewhat.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">re-peate after me, Modern Brake pads do not outgas period, </TD></TR></TABLE>
Repeat after me, you can't burn something without producing waste products the most notable of which is *gasp* vapors. Modern brake systems are better as dissipating heat and are more tolerant of high temperatures. This does not mean that the pads cannot gas. You're trying to argue against fundamental laws of physics here.
10-29-2003, 01:23 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (wcsinx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wcsinx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Repeat after me, you can't burn something without producing waste products the most notable of which is *gasp* vapors. Modern brake systems are better as dissipating heat and are more tolerant of high temperatures. This does not mean that the pads cannot gas. You're trying to argue against fundamental laws of physics here. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Its called Dust.
Repeat after me, you can't burn something without producing waste products the most notable of which is *gasp* vapors. Modern brake systems are better as dissipating heat and are more tolerant of high temperatures. This does not mean that the pads cannot gas. You're trying to argue against fundamental laws of physics here. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Its called Dust.
10-29-2003, 01:24 PM
#24
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (.RJ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Horseshit. Fade happens when you get **** too hot. When you get the system too hot, one of two things will happen:
- You've reached the thermal capacity of the pads and they do not grip anymore
- You boiled the brake fluid (this is what usually happens - get a spongy pedal feel).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh look, another genius
when "**** gets too hot" is precisely when the pad material begins to combust and produces *gasp* vapors ... hence "fade"
Horseshit. Fade happens when you get **** too hot. When you get the system too hot, one of two things will happen:
- You've reached the thermal capacity of the pads and they do not grip anymore
- You boiled the brake fluid (this is what usually happens - get a spongy pedal feel).
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Oh look, another genius
when "**** gets too hot" is precisely when the pad material begins to combust and produces *gasp* vapors ... hence "fade"
10-29-2003, 01:27 PM
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Re: what's the pros and cons of: cross drilled vs. slotted (Solracer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solracer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Its called Dust.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's called ... the idiocy of some of you kids on this forum never ceases to amaze me.
Its called Dust.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's called ... the idiocy of some of you kids on this forum never ceases to amaze me.