quick b20 question..
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From: hick town, WI, USA
Re: (b20integrapower)
I think you should all read this -
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/....html
Here's an excerpt:
98 B20B stock head and block, 94 P75/LS ecu
Intake: GSR stock cone filter and tube (no airbox), LS intake manifold, 64mm TB
Ex: GSR exhaust manifold, test pipe, Greddy BL exhaust
Comments: 128hp to the wheels is rougly 150hp to the flywheel. Interesting since the engine is rated only 126 hp flywheel. The increase in power can probably be accounted to the GSR exhaust manifold, free flow exhaust and the LS intake manifold.
Wrong. The power difference is in the manifolds, not the compression ratio.
Yes, you use your LS ECU, injectors, and distributor. I used my entire LS wiring harness as well.
what you should have realized is there is more to it than that and downgrading your motor just for lower compression is backwards...ive yet to see the type r owner sell his engine for a gsr motor or the gsr owner sell his gsr for an ls motor...compression is not a culprit...you got some more research to do, or if you researched, you didnt understand what you read
Apparently you've got more research to do. Lower compression is more ideal for boost then high compression. There's a reason why factory boosted cars are in the 8.X to 1 range and not 11.X to 1 like an ITR.
who spoke to you like an idiot???? you presented yourself as someone that had a half assed knowledge about his future turbo plans...had you taken the time out to understand the concept behind everything you would know its unnecessary to go for lower compression especially when youre talking about the stock compression of a b18b...the b20 has sleeve issues...not the prime choice for turbo...so not only are you downgrading on power but also reliability (ironic isnt it? the fact you thought youd be more reliable with lower CR)....nobody called you an idiot...you presented yourself as such...
Don't get cocky, newb.
You've got an attitude and you need to stop spouting incorrect information. The difference in power is related to the manifold and ECU.
The cams are the same, the head is the same, the stroke is the same, and the crank is the same. The only difference between the two long blocks is the sleeves and slightly lower compression.
I know why I'm selling my Integra. Even with the B20 and GSR tranny (which is quick, I beat my buddy's late GSR with ITR tranny, crower cams, and bolt-ons all day long), it'll never touch my 337 GTI.
Not to mention it put down 175 whp / 175 wft-lbs stock, and 197 whp / 240 wft-lbs with a simple software reflash.
I win. Now buy my car. http://hondamarketplace.com/zerothread?id=1662335
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/....html
Here's an excerpt:
98 B20B stock head and block, 94 P75/LS ecu
Intake: GSR stock cone filter and tube (no airbox), LS intake manifold, 64mm TB
Ex: GSR exhaust manifold, test pipe, Greddy BL exhaust
Comments: 128hp to the wheels is rougly 150hp to the flywheel. Interesting since the engine is rated only 126 hp flywheel. The increase in power can probably be accounted to the GSR exhaust manifold, free flow exhaust and the LS intake manifold.
Originally Posted by sujinX
im pretty sure its because of the compression ratio on it. the manifold does account for the low hp. if u decide to throw all that stuff on, get it tuned, u might be able to pull some more power out. the b20's arent high hp cars by itself. u need to do alot of stuff to it. hope that helps.
Originally Posted by D 2da A9
I have a full turbo kit for my ls all i need as a downpipe and a exhaust and $$ to tune. so i was thinking the b20b would be good becasue of the low compression. the jdm nd usdm b20b's have the same compression. also one more question. would it be safe to run my stock ls ecu and injectors with the b20b? i need to drive it for a few months before i can put the turbo on.
Originally Posted by lVlemphizStylez
what you should have realized is there is more to it than that and downgrading your motor just for lower compression is backwards...ive yet to see the type r owner sell his engine for a gsr motor or the gsr owner sell his gsr for an ls motor...compression is not a culprit...you got some more research to do, or if you researched, you didnt understand what you read
Originally Posted by lVlemphizStylez
who spoke to you like an idiot???? you presented yourself as someone that had a half assed knowledge about his future turbo plans...had you taken the time out to understand the concept behind everything you would know its unnecessary to go for lower compression especially when youre talking about the stock compression of a b18b...the b20 has sleeve issues...not the prime choice for turbo...so not only are you downgrading on power but also reliability (ironic isnt it? the fact you thought youd be more reliable with lower CR)....nobody called you an idiot...you presented yourself as such...
Originally Posted by 96tegls2dr
well the difference in power is not from the IM and injectors at all. the difference in power is from the lower compression the b20b has. even though its a larger displacement than the b18 the b20 doesnt make power in the same area either. the bore and stoke are different and so is the compression not to mention the different cam profile and they share the same head, so the b20b is bottlenecked because of head flow. that is the reason for the difference in power. i made my statement because if you planned to stay OBDII then you will HAVE to swap the IM and ect. regardless if it makes more power or not. so the answer to your question is NO it wont make the same power but will make more trq than the ls motor.
youve got an attitude man. you need to chill. you ask for help and then try to act like you know it all when your obviously not understanding/listening to what you being told. NOW THIS THREAD IS OVER!!! LOL
youve got an attitude man. you need to chill. you ask for help and then try to act like you know it all when your obviously not understanding/listening to what you being told. NOW THIS THREAD IS OVER!!! LOL
The cams are the same, the head is the same, the stroke is the same, and the crank is the same. The only difference between the two long blocks is the sleeves and slightly lower compression.
Originally Posted by b20integrapower
oh..and find out why i sold my integra. 
Not to mention it put down 175 whp / 175 wft-lbs stock, and 197 whp / 240 wft-lbs with a simple software reflash.
I win. Now buy my car. http://hondamarketplace.com/zerothread?id=1662335
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From: Tallahassee/Miami, Fl, USA
Re: (wreckedmyteg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wreckedmyteg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Apparently you've got more research to do. Lower compression is more ideal for boost then high compression. There's a reason why factory boosted cars are in the 8.X to 1 range and not 11.X to 1 like an ITR.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
apparently i dont...lower compression allows you to run more boost...but this is irrelevant when more effecient turbos can run lower boost resulting in a lower intake temp charge and produce the same if not more power...now you go do some research....newb
if youre some kinda psi nuthugger and wanna brag about 22psi then yea i guess youd want lower compression...but if making power is what youre about...this is kinda irrelevant, the cr of honda engines arent that high as to warrant detonation with the smallest MAP reading...so all that is irrelevant...it makes it EVEN MORE IRRELEVANT the fact he had a b18b...now stfu
you even know why lower cr is talked about?? only time when lower cr should be an issue is when your power goal is extreme and to go more effecient turbo on a lower psi would mean severe lag because your goal is so high (IE youd have to use a very large turbo at a low psi setting to achieve your number)...then and only then is it reasonable to down the CR and run a smaller turbo that will spool quicker and give the whp goal
is your only "technical" argument that "OH LOOK WHAT THE fACTORY CAR'S RUN FOR CR ON TURBO" if so...dont follow up post...
Modified by lVlemphizStylez at 9:17 AM 7/26/2006
Apparently you've got more research to do. Lower compression is more ideal for boost then high compression. There's a reason why factory boosted cars are in the 8.X to 1 range and not 11.X to 1 like an ITR.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
apparently i dont...lower compression allows you to run more boost...but this is irrelevant when more effecient turbos can run lower boost resulting in a lower intake temp charge and produce the same if not more power...now you go do some research....newb
if youre some kinda psi nuthugger and wanna brag about 22psi then yea i guess youd want lower compression...but if making power is what youre about...this is kinda irrelevant, the cr of honda engines arent that high as to warrant detonation with the smallest MAP reading...so all that is irrelevant...it makes it EVEN MORE IRRELEVANT the fact he had a b18b...now stfu
you even know why lower cr is talked about?? only time when lower cr should be an issue is when your power goal is extreme and to go more effecient turbo on a lower psi would mean severe lag because your goal is so high (IE youd have to use a very large turbo at a low psi setting to achieve your number)...then and only then is it reasonable to down the CR and run a smaller turbo that will spool quicker and give the whp goal
is your only "technical" argument that "OH LOOK WHAT THE fACTORY CAR'S RUN FOR CR ON TURBO" if so...dont follow up post...
Modified by lVlemphizStylez at 9:17 AM 7/26/2006
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From: hick town, WI, USA
Re: (lVlemphizStylez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lVlemphizStylez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ive yet to see the type r owner sell his engine for a gsr motor or the gsr owner sell his gsr for an ls motor...compression is not a culprit...you got some more research to do, or if you researched, you didnt understand what you read</TD></TR></TABLE>
Going from 9.2:1 to 8.8:1 could be considered a negligible amount, yes.
I've yet to see an ITR owner build a motor for boost and keep it at 11:1 (unless of course, he's got an ample supply of 110 octane). 11:1 static cr @ 8psi = 15:1 dynamic cr.
Learn about high compression with boost and how it relates to timing pull. Nothing like heating your water jackets instead of creating use-able power. In the mean time I'll be swapping the slugs out of my 1.8t for some uber high compression ones.
ive yet to see the type r owner sell his engine for a gsr motor or the gsr owner sell his gsr for an ls motor...compression is not a culprit...you got some more research to do, or if you researched, you didnt understand what you read</TD></TR></TABLE>
Going from 9.2:1 to 8.8:1 could be considered a negligible amount, yes.
I've yet to see an ITR owner build a motor for boost and keep it at 11:1 (unless of course, he's got an ample supply of 110 octane). 11:1 static cr @ 8psi = 15:1 dynamic cr.
Learn about high compression with boost and how it relates to timing pull. Nothing like heating your water jackets instead of creating use-able power. In the mean time I'll be swapping the slugs out of my 1.8t for some uber high compression ones.
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: orange county, ca, USA
Re: (wreckedmyteg)
you are correct about the stroke being the same, but you also are spouting off incorrect info. the cams arent the same. the rod length is also different which is what yeilds less hp and a lower CR but according to you the motors are identical besides the bore/ sleeve. the b18b rod is 19.9mm or .785" and the b20b is 23.7mm or .935". the difference in manifold is minimal. i actuall have a b20b JDM IM a b18b usdm IM and a B18c usdm IM. there isnt much differnece in the b18b and b20b manifolds including runner length. especially not enough to warrant the decrease in power as you suggested.
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Re: (96tegls2dr)
well after the instal is done we will see i get a free dyno run hopefully. it will have a header, hi-flow cat, 2 1/4 in exhaust into stock muffler, k&n filter, and 9lb flywheel and aftermarket clutch. im gong to run a pr4 ecu..
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Re: (96tegls2dr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> there isnt much differnece in the b18b and b20b manifolds including runner length. .</TD></TR></TABLE>
humm yea the runner lenths are the same
humm yea the runner lenths are the same
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From: orange county, ca, USA
Re: (D 2da A9)
ok since you think your so smart then did you realize that the b20b comes with 2 different manifolds?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
the one you posted and the one i posted. and the runner lengths are almost identical as the ls intake manifold. as a matter of fact ill even go home on my lunch and take a pic of the b20 manifold that came off the motor and the ls intake manifold that got swapped over form the ls motor. so dont be such a smartass!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem
the one you posted and the one i posted. and the runner lengths are almost identical as the ls intake manifold. as a matter of fact ill even go home on my lunch and take a pic of the b20 manifold that came off the motor and the ls intake manifold that got swapped over form the ls motor. so dont be such a smartass!!
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From: Tallahassee/Miami, Fl, USA
Re: (KraZEtEggIE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KraZEtEggIE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">low compression boost motors are for n00bs. im at 10.5:1 and considering going ls/vtec. in that case i will be around 11:1.</TD></TR></TABLE>
+1
+1
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Re: (lVlemphizStylez)
the motor is in. a big improvement in torque. i love it. over all performance is up but not a huge gain over the b18. but it is defenetly faster. also not to mention i had it tuned with crome using my old uberdata chippped ecu so im sure that helped power a little.
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From: Back in Chico...., Ca, United States
Re: (D 2da A9)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D 2da A9 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i am not an idiot so dont talk to me like i am. what i realized is that i am just goign to get a b20b because the fact that it has lower compression then the b20z and also i cant seem to find one for sale anywere. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Damn man i wish you woulda posted a few weeks ago. I just had a complete b20z for sale. Everything with my LS IM, injectors, fuel rail and some performance cams i picked up from a friend. Personally, stay away from the b20's i've had 2 in my car and both have blown up. Even with sleeving that doesn't make it bullet proof. Plus the sleeves have a tendancy to "slip" go build an LS/vtec if you want good torque with a motor that will last. just my two cents. i know you're going to do what you want, so...more power to ya. and best of luck!
i am not an idiot so dont talk to me like i am. what i realized is that i am just goign to get a b20b because the fact that it has lower compression then the b20z and also i cant seem to find one for sale anywere. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Damn man i wish you woulda posted a few weeks ago. I just had a complete b20z for sale. Everything with my LS IM, injectors, fuel rail and some performance cams i picked up from a friend. Personally, stay away from the b20's i've had 2 in my car and both have blown up. Even with sleeving that doesn't make it bullet proof. Plus the sleeves have a tendancy to "slip" go build an LS/vtec if you want good torque with a motor that will last. just my two cents. i know you're going to do what you want, so...more power to ya. and best of luck!
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Re: (96tegls2dr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are correct about the stroke being the same, but you also are spouting off incorrect info. the cams arent the same. the rod length is also different which is what yeilds less hp and a lower CR but according to you the motors are identical besides the bore/ sleeve. the b18b rod is 19.9mm or .785" and the b20b is 23.7mm or .935". the difference in manifold is minimal. i actuall have a b20b JDM IM a b18b usdm IM and a B18c usdm IM. there isnt much differnece in the b18b and b20b manifolds including runner length. especially not enough to warrant the decrease in power as you suggested.</TD></TR></TABLE>
blah blah blah, the rods are the same, B18B to B20B.
blah blah blah, the rods are the same, B18B to B20B.
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Re: (b20integrapower)
Some spec. about JDM B20
CRV/SM-X (1996 to 1998)
B20B - 1972cc
Hp 130/5,500rpm
Torque 19.0/4,200rpm
Compression 8.8
CRV (1999 to 2001)
B20B - 1972cc
Hp 150/6,300rpm
Torque 18.8/4,500rpm
Compression 9.6
SM-X 1999 and up.
B20B - 1972cc
Hp 140/5,500rpm
Torque 19.0/4,200rpm
Compression 9.2
Orthia
2.0L DOHC 16-VALVE+PGM-FI
GX-S - EL2, EL3 1996 and up.
B20B DOHC 1972cc
Hp 145/6,200rpm
Torque 18.2/5,200rpm
Compression ratio 9.2
CRV/SM-X (1996 to 1998)
B20B - 1972cc
Hp 130/5,500rpm
Torque 19.0/4,200rpm
Compression 8.8
CRV (1999 to 2001)
B20B - 1972cc
Hp 150/6,300rpm
Torque 18.8/4,500rpm
Compression 9.6
SM-X 1999 and up.
B20B - 1972cc
Hp 140/5,500rpm
Torque 19.0/4,200rpm
Compression 9.2
Orthia
2.0L DOHC 16-VALVE+PGM-FI
GX-S - EL2, EL3 1996 and up.
B20B DOHC 1972cc
Hp 145/6,200rpm
Torque 18.2/5,200rpm
Compression ratio 9.2
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Re: (96tegls2dr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that was an intelligent comment. care to enlighten your perception since i actually posted numbers to back up my coment 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the rod length is also different which is what yeilds less hp and a lower CR </TD></TR></TABLE>
So by that rational, the rod length would be different between the USDM B20B (8.8:1) and the USDM B20Z (9.6:1)?
It's the piston that determins the compression ratio on these motors, not the rod length.
</TD></TR></TABLE><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the rod length is also different which is what yeilds less hp and a lower CR </TD></TR></TABLE>
So by that rational, the rod length would be different between the USDM B20B (8.8:1) and the USDM B20Z (9.6:1)?
It's the piston that determins the compression ratio on these motors, not the rod length.
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Re: (wreckedmyteg)
well rod length could, but in the differance between the b20b's and b20z's is just pistons. an example of rod length affecting c/r would be gsr rods and pistons in an ls motor.
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Re: (KraZEtEggIE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KraZEtEggIE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well rod length could, but in the differance between the b20b's and b20z's is just pistons. an example of rod length affecting c/r would be gsr rods and pistons in an ls motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct, but he was referring to the C/R difference between the B20B and B18B (which; if that was the case, the B20Z would also have a different rod length since it's a higher C/R then the B20B).
Correct, but he was referring to the C/R difference between the B20B and B18B (which; if that was the case, the B20Z would also have a different rod length since it's a higher C/R then the B20B).
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From: orange county, ca, USA
Re: (wreckedmyteg)
i alrady posted the rods lengths for the b20b and b18b and they are different. from all the research i have done i cant find any solid facts that the rods are the same( b18b & b20b). but i did find the lengths to be different in a lot of my research.
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Re: (KraZEtEggIE)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KraZEtEggIE »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b18a, b18b, b20b, and b20z all use 137mm rods. what in the lazy blind fat **** are you talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol.
ding! ding! ding! we have a winner!
lol.
ding! ding! ding! we have a winner!
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Re: (96tegls2dr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i alrady posted the rods lengths for the b20b and b18b and they are different. from all the research i have done i cant find any solid facts that the rods are the same( b18b & b20b). but i did find the lengths to be different in a lot of my research.</TD></TR></TABLE>
stop posting wrong information, please.
stop posting wrong information, please.
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Re: (96tegls2dr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96tegls2dr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that was an intelligent comment. care to enlighten your perception since i actually posted numbers to back up my coment </TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.crower.com/cat/impo...shtml
http://www.eaglerod.com/produc....html
</TD></TR></TABLE>http://www.crower.com/cat/impo...shtml
http://www.eaglerod.com/produc....html
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