An odd engine setup... advantages?
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Baton Rouge, La
An odd engine setup... advantages?
Here's the basic story, and I'm curious as to if there are any advantages to this setup.
A friend of mine sold his LS, got some extra cash, and bought what he originally claimed to be a 97 TypeR. So, I decided to go check it out.
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When I first saw the car, I knew immediatley something wasn't right. The exterior was ok, except for the fact that it had GSR rims, and 4-lugs.... (strike 1)..
The interior was definitley "modded," so to speak, with the entire dash being WHITE (!) with red accents. (Strike 2)
No spoiler, and it seems like there were never any holes drilled for one. (umm... ok) Bodykit ? of course. Jay-Dee Emm cluster, check.
VIN number didn't match up with a usual Type-R... (Ok, at this point, it's 150% definitley not a typeR)
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However, it has a b18c5 block. That one is easy, it's stamped in plain view. But there was also something off about the head. Upon further consultation with other people who were there (tuning shop owners), they explained that it was a GSR head on a TypeR block.
I'm just wondering... By examining how riced out and ill treated some aspects of the car are, I really don't think there's any well-installed beneficial engine internals. Everything on it screams GSR, except for that little c5 stamp. We've checked to be sure it isn't some chop-shop product, all of the papers/VIN/etc. check out.
The owner claims the car runs 14.1-.3, with a 1.8 60-ft. I laugh.
He claims he beat up on an SRT-4. I laugh harder.
He says he'll make 200 whp. I couldn't take it anymore.
Is there any advantage to running a c5 block with a GSR head, with no other obvious modifications? I'm wondering if I'm just being know-nothing tard when it comes to honda engine hybirds, since I drive a VW and mainly focus on that.
A friend of mine sold his LS, got some extra cash, and bought what he originally claimed to be a 97 TypeR. So, I decided to go check it out.
---------------
When I first saw the car, I knew immediatley something wasn't right. The exterior was ok, except for the fact that it had GSR rims, and 4-lugs.... (strike 1)..
The interior was definitley "modded," so to speak, with the entire dash being WHITE (!) with red accents. (Strike 2)
No spoiler, and it seems like there were never any holes drilled for one. (umm... ok) Bodykit ? of course. Jay-Dee Emm cluster, check.
VIN number didn't match up with a usual Type-R... (Ok, at this point, it's 150% definitley not a typeR)
------------------
However, it has a b18c5 block. That one is easy, it's stamped in plain view. But there was also something off about the head. Upon further consultation with other people who were there (tuning shop owners), they explained that it was a GSR head on a TypeR block.
I'm just wondering... By examining how riced out and ill treated some aspects of the car are, I really don't think there's any well-installed beneficial engine internals. Everything on it screams GSR, except for that little c5 stamp. We've checked to be sure it isn't some chop-shop product, all of the papers/VIN/etc. check out.
The owner claims the car runs 14.1-.3, with a 1.8 60-ft. I laugh.
He claims he beat up on an SRT-4. I laugh harder.
He says he'll make 200 whp. I couldn't take it anymore.
Is there any advantage to running a c5 block with a GSR head, with no other obvious modifications? I'm wondering if I'm just being know-nothing tard when it comes to honda engine hybirds, since I drive a VW and mainly focus on that.
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Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (i luv my 97 teg)
GSR head on a USDM type R block would yield a slightly higher compression ratio due to the smaller combustion chamber....not sure the exact figures but its a couple of cc's smaller.
On bojang/calculator.com it gives a 10.8:1 ratio rather than stock compression.
That's the only thing i can see...
But you now have a dual stage IM, and retune for a different vtec engagement
Good luck with that car....sounds like a treat!
On bojang/calculator.com it gives a 10.8:1 ratio rather than stock compression.
That's the only thing i can see...
But you now have a dual stage IM, and retune for a different vtec engagement
Good luck with that car....sounds like a treat!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
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From: Baton Rouge, La
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (96BLkGSR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96BLkGSR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But you now have a dual stage IM, and retune for a different vtec engagement
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What do you mean? Dual stage IM?
(again, i'm not up to par on honda motors)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted95teg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GS-R with itr tight. Well last owner actually knew what he was doing </TD></TR></TABLE>
See, due to the condition of the rest of the car, and the extensive re-wiring and various problems, I don't think that's the case. It's pretty ghetto-rigged.
In the end, I still don't see these mods justifying that kind of track times. Better compression (up to nearly 11) is impressive, but just that with no supporting mods isn't going to make THAT much of a difference.
But you now have a dual stage IM, and retune for a different vtec engagement
</TD></TR></TABLE>
What do you mean? Dual stage IM?
(again, i'm not up to par on honda motors)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted95teg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GS-R with itr tight. Well last owner actually knew what he was doing </TD></TR></TABLE>
See, due to the condition of the rest of the car, and the extensive re-wiring and various problems, I don't think that's the case. It's pretty ghetto-rigged.
In the end, I still don't see these mods justifying that kind of track times. Better compression (up to nearly 11) is impressive, but just that with no supporting mods isn't going to make THAT much of a difference.
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From: elVap tricks for me
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (senseiturtle)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by senseiturtle »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What do you mean? Dual stage IM?
(again, i'm not up to par on honda motors)
See, due to the condition of the rest of the car, and the extensive re-wiring and various problems, I don't think that's the case. It's pretty ghetto-rigged.
In the end, I still don't see these mods justifying that kind of track times. Better compression (up to nearly 11) is impressive, but just that with no supporting mods isn't going to make THAT much of a difference. </TD></TR></TABLE> what kind of cams are in it? maybe he has ITR/ CTR cams. is there a overbore? dont judge a book by its cover. i have seen plenty of riced out cars with a drag turbo hiding under the hood. and the dual stage IM (intake manifold) is a GSR manifold that has 2 runners. at first the car runs off the main runner but when you reach (the secondaries) @5700 RPM i believe it opens up a butterfly in the manifold so it brings in more air during VTEC.
What do you mean? Dual stage IM?
(again, i'm not up to par on honda motors)
See, due to the condition of the rest of the car, and the extensive re-wiring and various problems, I don't think that's the case. It's pretty ghetto-rigged.
In the end, I still don't see these mods justifying that kind of track times. Better compression (up to nearly 11) is impressive, but just that with no supporting mods isn't going to make THAT much of a difference. </TD></TR></TABLE> what kind of cams are in it? maybe he has ITR/ CTR cams. is there a overbore? dont judge a book by its cover. i have seen plenty of riced out cars with a drag turbo hiding under the hood. and the dual stage IM (intake manifold) is a GSR manifold that has 2 runners. at first the car runs off the main runner but when you reach (the secondaries) @5700 RPM i believe it opens up a butterfly in the manifold so it brings in more air during VTEC.
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Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
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From: Baton Rouge, La
I'll have to ask a few more questions, and take a closer look at the car.
Thanks, I didn't know they had a dual stage intake manifold on these cars. That's why I was confused when you mentioned it..
I really don't know which cams he's running, or even which intake mani he's running. Thing is, I'm not too sure I can believe him if i directly ask him, due to his history of compulsive lying.
The reason I'm asking all of this, is because someone with a specV called him out. The specV runs a garunteed 14.6 (I was there), and I'm interested to see the outcome of the race. If the specV beats him, then I'll run him, just to figure out exactly where the car stands. I ran a 15.3 @91, 2.2x 60'.
These two runs should give us a good idea of the overall state of tune, but I'm pretty sure we should just pop the motor open and check it all out anyway. Of course, he doesn't want to do it, b/c it might prove some of his eariler claims wrong.
Thanks, I didn't know they had a dual stage intake manifold on these cars. That's why I was confused when you mentioned it..
I really don't know which cams he's running, or even which intake mani he's running. Thing is, I'm not too sure I can believe him if i directly ask him, due to his history of compulsive lying.
The reason I'm asking all of this, is because someone with a specV called him out. The specV runs a garunteed 14.6 (I was there), and I'm interested to see the outcome of the race. If the specV beats him, then I'll run him, just to figure out exactly where the car stands. I ran a 15.3 @91, 2.2x 60'.
These two runs should give us a good idea of the overall state of tune, but I'm pretty sure we should just pop the motor open and check it all out anyway. Of course, he doesn't want to do it, b/c it might prove some of his eariler claims wrong.
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From: U of Washington
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (i luv my 97 teg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by i luv my 97 teg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not to be a smartass, but wouldn't your friend think something was up seeing blades on a Hype R?</TD></TR></TABLE>
4-lug ITR, haha
4-lug ITR, haha
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From: West burbs, MN, United states
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (smemts)
sweet whats that spec-v runnin for mods?...i always wanted to swap a single cam vtec in an integra and throw a crazy body kit on it and some decent paint and sell it to some ricer...thats my goal in life
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From: Baton Rouge, La
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (DannyBoy_Db8)
SpecV
i/h/e/testpipe, pulleys, full suspension setup, falken tires, and probably a few other recent goodies.
He just got some larger wheels at the same time he added his header, but I think he'd still pull a consistent 14.8, and should still be able to hit 14.6. I haven't been with him to the track after his wheel upgrade.
He's the kind of guy that'll pull apart the entire motor once or twice a year just to clean it out... he's fairly serious about what he's doing. He'd much rather autoX than drag, and consistently does well.
As for the quasi-ricer integra hybrid... again, I really don't know what's done to the motor... I just know it's a c5 block with a c1 head. After talking with others, I think it's got the c1 cams, the dual IM, and GSR ecu. It's really a whole bunch of seemingly mismatched parts all in one car.
i/h/e/testpipe, pulleys, full suspension setup, falken tires, and probably a few other recent goodies.
He just got some larger wheels at the same time he added his header, but I think he'd still pull a consistent 14.8, and should still be able to hit 14.6. I haven't been with him to the track after his wheel upgrade.
He's the kind of guy that'll pull apart the entire motor once or twice a year just to clean it out... he's fairly serious about what he's doing. He'd much rather autoX than drag, and consistently does well.
As for the quasi-ricer integra hybrid... again, I really don't know what's done to the motor... I just know it's a c5 block with a c1 head. After talking with others, I think it's got the c1 cams, the dual IM, and GSR ecu. It's really a whole bunch of seemingly mismatched parts all in one car.
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (senseiturtle)
Does it have a sunroof? If ITR then no.
Does it have door moldings? If ITR then no.
How about the rear chassis tie bar on the subframe below the rear swaybar? If ITR then yes.
Does it have the 3rd brakelight in the rear glass? If ITR then yes.
Does it have A/C? I believe 97 ITR's did not have A/C (could be wrong).
Does it have a rear trunk brace? Look inside the trunk along the rear bulkhead. If ITR then yes.
If any question is answered differently, it's probably not an ITR chassis.
Does it have door moldings? If ITR then no.
How about the rear chassis tie bar on the subframe below the rear swaybar? If ITR then yes.
Does it have the 3rd brakelight in the rear glass? If ITR then yes.
Does it have A/C? I believe 97 ITR's did not have A/C (could be wrong).
Does it have a rear trunk brace? Look inside the trunk along the rear bulkhead. If ITR then yes.
If any question is answered differently, it's probably not an ITR chassis.
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From: Baton Rouge, La
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (Brandon Chun)
We've pretty well established that it is NOT a true TypeR.
VIN numbers are wrong, GSR suspension (no lower rear tiebar), 4-lug wheels, no trunk brace, etc.
Only thing is... it has a c5 with some whack setup as mentioned above.
I believe my original question was answered, that running a GSR head on a c5 block would raise the compression to about 10.8, and basically have no other advantages. This, of course, would produce a vehicle that still doesn't accelerate as quickly as a TypeR, although the owner is claiming 14.0 timeslips with a rediculous 1.8 60' on street tires.
Is there any other advantage to a c5 block over a c1 block, running a stock GSR head/cams?
VIN numbers are wrong, GSR suspension (no lower rear tiebar), 4-lug wheels, no trunk brace, etc.
Only thing is... it has a c5 with some whack setup as mentioned above.
I believe my original question was answered, that running a GSR head on a c5 block would raise the compression to about 10.8, and basically have no other advantages. This, of course, would produce a vehicle that still doesn't accelerate as quickly as a TypeR, although the owner is claiming 14.0 timeslips with a rediculous 1.8 60' on street tires.
Is there any other advantage to a c5 block over a c1 block, running a stock GSR head/cams?
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From: Nowhere and Everywhere
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (senseiturtle)
B18C5 and C1 blocks are exactly the same. The difference is the Integra Type R's domed pistons, which is what will give the 10.8:1 CR vs. 10.0:1 for a stock B18C1 engine. You could put the USDM Integra Type R pistons in any GS-R engine and it would yield the same results.
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From: NASCAR WOOOO
Re: An odd engine setup... advantages? (PatrickGSR94)
lets not forget though, the p72 head does have a not so cool port design (compared to the pr3). and who knows what cams are in the thing. if its gsr cams, what a waste (only make power under 8000 and not designed for the extra compression).
PR3 is the better of the heads, the gsr is 3cc smaller on each chamber. it will yeild maybe a point of compression, but not much. it sounds funny to me that someone would actually throw a p72 head on a c5 bottom end. the motor might have an aftermarket intake mani, i wouldn't put the retarded dual stager back on if i was taking motors apart. thats me though.
all in all, its a wierd story. give more details when answers are found.
PR3 is the better of the heads, the gsr is 3cc smaller on each chamber. it will yeild maybe a point of compression, but not much. it sounds funny to me that someone would actually throw a p72 head on a c5 bottom end. the motor might have an aftermarket intake mani, i wouldn't put the retarded dual stager back on if i was taking motors apart. thats me though.
all in all, its a wierd story. give more details when answers are found.
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