All Integra's in the US are 57mm pistons & 262 rotors. Only the rare R has the larger discs. BTW: You can use an 57mm R caliper on 240mm knuckle with a 262mm rotor and effectively have the same thing. What do regular Integra's run in the UK, and what is your source of info?

And as far as hydraulics go, I'm a little confused by what you say. You mention a smaller MC results increased pressure, but where exactly does the pressure increase? Not at the foot, and certainly not at the caliper. If you just installed a smaller MC on your current setup, you would have increased travel to generate the same pressure at the caliper. Then if you installed a bigger booster, you would have the same travel but not have to push the pedal so hard. In a performance app, you want a hard pedal (small booster) with proper stroke (correct size MC). If you go to a booster too big and an MC too big, it becomes too easy to lock the wheels and you loose the ability to modulate (or so I thought).

 

I did a little more reading on master cylinders and I think I see what your saying. In order to generate the same pressure at the caliper with a bigger MC, you need to push the pedal harder. With the smaller MC, you need to push it further. The problem is it just becomes so confusing once you make the caliper pistons a variable as well. If I'm not mistaken, adding larger caliper piston negates that increased effort of the larger MC by generating more brake-torque at lower line pressure. Perhaps this is why Honda builds this way?

Either way, I just follow the Honda method of building brake systems based on the info I've gathered. Then I don't have to worry about the technical side so much.

 

There is no 'regular' Integra for the UK market, only the Type R, which all came with 282mm discs with 57mm pistons, the same as the JDM 98Spec. There are a few import Si Integras knocking about which get the same 262mm 54mm brakes as the 96Spec. My sources for dimensions have been http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/ and http://www.brakepartssuperstore.org.uk/ although neither list calipers for the 96Spec any more. All sizes have been confirmed by plenty of members on the ITR forum though.

The fluid pressure increases in the system as a whole. Pressure = Force/area, so a nominal input force from the pedal/booster divided by smaller area means a higher pressure. The pedal travel is dictated by the pad movement, which isn't going to vary much. If we assume it to move 1/4", then you can figure out how much fluid volume the MC needs to displace, then you work the equation backwards to get MC piston travel.

I've got them written out here, and a 15/16" with 54mm pistons needs 6.45" of pedal travel (5:1 pedal ratio) to move the pads 1/4". A 57mm piston needs 7.14". Changing the MC to a 1" brings it back 6.27".

The respective boosters listed on the Honda EPC for UK models (7+8" for 15/16" and 8+9" for 1") pretty much cancel out the difference in pressure caused by the differing cross sectional area and equalise the pedal forces required to generate a given fluid pressure.

You can certainly do far worse than following Honda's setups, but they can be improved upon.

 

thnks for the great info, but i have 1 problem, the 15/16" MC (EX 90-91) and the booster doesnt sale anymore around here, can i use one ABS 15/16" civic EX 97+???

 

It would work if your lines were already bent all weird depending on which 1" MC you were using. This requires the matching booster too cause the bolt holes are different:



Centric (stoptech) makes 90-91 15/16 EX master cylinder (130.40016) though, and it sells for $57 shipped if you search google. This would require your original stock small booster or large EX booster. It would also require original hard-line configuration too: http://www.google.com/webhp?rlz=1C1C...w=1408&bih=910

 

For US we have:
MC ---- BB
13/16" = 8"
7/8" = 8" (EF) or 9"
15/16" = 7+8"
1" = 8+9"

So which is better for modulation, a shorter pedal or a stiffer pedal?

 

my dead MC is just like the 1st image, from integra 98+, for the lines nots a big deal because i can make it fit.

just a curious my friends car civic 88, he bought it and the front brakes are 10.2, rear drums but the funny thing is that between the MC and the booster ( both 1" ABS) have a washer, with almost 1cm of gross, and believe me brake awesome.

like a 2nd option which other MC and booster will you recommend me to install?

 

i´ll prefer the shorter pedal because is better even in the track

 

I think the Integra 1" MC has a 12mm fitting a 10mm fitting while the EX one in the 1st pic has two 10mm fittings. Perhaps just get yourself a new 1" Integra MC and call it a day. At the end of the day maybe it doesn't matter.

BTW: "braking awesome" is a function of tires and bias.....and is subjective at best.

 

right 1 12mm and other 10mm, mostly the comment must be " awesome pedal response" and youre right!!

 

Depends really, some people can modulate travel better than force, others visa versa. Personally I do no like excessive travel as it hampers heel toe actions, so less force and a shorter pedal works for me. My 15/16" with 57mm pistons felt mushy and hard to modulate properly compared to when I had the original 54mm calipers.

If you're used to driving an automatic and braking with your left foot, then a longer pedal would probably be better.

Horses, courses and all that... so I guess maybe we were both right?

 

Yeah. like what happened to the prop-valve debate, it appears it's not as super important as we are led to think.

When I went from a 13/16" & 50mm pistons, to a 7/8" & 54mm pistons, the pedal became much more stiff (same booster). To me I have a lot less travel, but definitely have to press it harder. Only other change was adding stainless hoses to the front (rear already had them). I sincerely enjoy this current setup, but I don't race the car either.

 

Will ITR rotors fir on a CTR set up?

 

I think that depends on which ITR setup and which CTR setup. They made those cars over several generations.

 

Question for the experts:

I have a 1994 Del Sol V-TECH with factory rear disc brakes and I wanted to upgrade the rear brakes to the biggest that I could pretty much bolt on.

I got 2003 Civic Si Calipers, brackets and rotors. I'm eyeballing everything up and while it looks like the brackets and calipers will physically bolt up I have real concerns about the new location of the brake line and e-brake lever.

Am I being paranoid and everything will fit or did I misread BrakeExperts chart and got the wrong parts?

 

The Si calipers mount the brake lines on the bottom rather than the top. You can use your original calipers and just use the Si brackets, and everything should right up. You should use EP Si pads though. Comes out looking like this:

 

I hate to bug you after such a beautiful post but you left something out or im confused, I sourced my rear disc set up for my 1996 DX Hatch from a 1993 del sol si, will this fit, the LCA's are definately different. How can I make this work? Please help!!

I read another post that said this one was the easiest and most complete due to the ebrake cables and lines, which is why i bought it!!! Did I get bad info?

 

use your oem lca.

 

Yes, just re-use your stock control arms. Only thing you will change out is the trailing arms and brake assembly. Don't know about the e-brake cables though.

 

Thanks for the reply. Both my rear calipers need replaced so I thought it would be a good time to upgrade. Do you have a recommendation on the next best caliper/bracket/pads to use with the Si rotors?

 

There is a way to make them work. I'm not 100%, but maybe swap cailpers left to right or something like that. Or maybe swap e-brake cable brackets. I don't know. Do a little reserach on the EP 4x100 brake swap. Just be aware the have larger pistons and this may add more rear bias than desired. Test your brakes under heavy deceleration in a safe place. You don't want the rear end to lock up first at max weight transfer or you will loose stability and possibly spin out.

Adding 57mm front calipers from an integra would help offset this, but you will also need a bigger 15/16" master cylinder if you do that.

 

I was looking at this and I think this will work. Thanks again.

Got this covered

 

Dear Honda Brake Experts,

I just bought a 93 si hatch w/o abs. One of the back rotors is bad and needs replacing. Plan to upgrade motor in future, and hope to bring the car to the track one day.

Seeing the brakes is the first work order for the car, I have been exploring thoroughly before I make any choices. Car also need new tires or wheels.... I have been looking into all the options and not sure which route to go.
First thought was to buy new black zinc slotted/drilled rotors, ceramic pads and steel lines. I'm looking for good overall balance of performance and cost. Also came up the idea to do a 5 lug conversion with the Type R/RSX Brembo setup, but unsure about if level of difficulty and cost will make sense with that route. Would like to use interchangeable salvage parts possibly. If the performance upgrade and cost effectiveness are worthy of the work involved. Thought about making use of Integra parts or similar. Being on the chart already where should I go with this? Is an Integra upgrade even worth it?
Thank you for this post great work.

 

wait wait wait... mister brake expert... my situation is just like ^^^ *alexandern48*

have a 95 si and needs all new rotors and pads... but i want to go 5x114 too...

would it be cost effective or a hassle(?)???... i'm old and i have sometimers and could use the help...

if not recommended to go 5x114... then what upgrades should i make to the stock si setup???...

thank you very much... r, peter b

 

Bump