Could someone post a screenshot of a stock h22a ignition timing curves in 2d graph mode on low cam pre 5k rpm.

thanks,
--Aaron

 

You could download Smanager(S300) and look at the maps. For my set-up I advanced the timing on my high cam down to 3k and had my cross over at 3800.

 

Thats a tuned map by hondata.

Just tune the map, if you have stock cams, you will not be out of vtec for long

 

This really does not make a whole lot of sense.

Do you mean you advanced timing on the high cam map more then what they had?
and did you move vtec crossover to 3k? which seems low..

I have a hard time following you.


Advancing the highcam map pre vtec wont do a lot of good if vtec comes in later, its a point in the map that will never be used.

Could you be clearer please?

Thanks,
--Aaron


If I have to download honda manager and look at there tuned map I can do that and probably see a screenshot of what my problem is.

 

You cant use hondata map as a "guide" if you are on another system. What cams do you have?

 

Sure I can!
--Setup is a Stock H22, no iab's, Logic motorsports header FTW! full 3 inch exhaust no cat.. and its totally fun!

I load the map in the software on one screen and look at Neptune on my other screen and attempt to replicate the load vs ignition timing points... I want a rough idea of how the curves are suppose to look.. the problem is what I am trying to do no one messes with, or atleast shares how its suppose to be done properly.

There are ignition advance trends its the same thing for fueling, your high load fuel should look similar to your low load fuel same curves just less fuel.... its the same thing for turbo cars, there are just way more data points, and when looked at in 2d mode depending on how many pounds of boost you run you could have 18 extra lines for 18 pounds of boost, each line will look identical/similar to the last one but just shifted up xyz percent and the corresponding ignition value for that fuel value will be lower ignition timing on the map..


The problem I have seen is all these low cam fuel and ignition maps look like **** people dont tune them correctly and no one knows how to help because if you are a tuner and tune someone elses car generally speaking you might adjust for injector sizes but only really adjust the last 3 columns of the fuel and ignition map and send them on their way.

I want to find how much ignition timing I can run at high load at every rpm then for lower load levels increase that. once that trend is found you can start fiddling with your compensation values..

I have been messing with this tune on my h22 for the last 3 years listening to what the engine does feeling the acceleration and messing with fueling.

I'm currently using neptune RTP... FTMFW love that software which is why on a majority of my fuel maps I have the compensation values zeroed out.

Anyway here are some screenshots of my current low cam fuel and low cam ignition map

These screenshots should be in order of progression taken snapshots of various maps I have progressed though.. I did not include fuel shots although that's another story.. I have found the low cam fueling has been pretty flat.

Attached is All my work over the last 2 years should be over 25 h22 maps in order of me fiddling with them.

 

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear enough. I advanced timing from the 3-5k range on the high cam map. These resulted in a VTEC cross over of 3800. The change in timing was mainly due to a huge dip in timing in those RPM's. I just smoothed it out and made noticeable power. BTW I was just street tuning. Going from the OEM computer, to having VTEC at 3800 all the way to 8k, makes the H22 so much nicer. The broadness of the powerband was incredible.

 

well that sounds like you have a pretty interesting setup.. Rosko I think it was?? did some dyno comparisons of interesting things that happened while switching out intake manifolds and saw a strange bump around that rpm you mention on the h22 I think with Euro R manifold.. It was pretty neat.. But that sounds pretty strange a vtec point that low...

The h22 is pretty torqey so anything you do to that is noticeable like put in lighter seats in my hatchback ... sounds stupid and I'm still laughing about it.

 

My set-up was aimed at midrange power.

CAI with BPI stack(check out Blakes testing and you'll see why my cross-over was so low)
Rosko'd Euro R manifold
PP 68mm throttle body
JDM RS-R header
Ebay 60mm test-pipe and exhaust(my bottle neck)
DSM 450's
S300 with PLX wideband

I had some Pro 1's and a built head waiting to go on but I got tired of fixing the Prelude every month and bought an AP1

 

Yes! I saw those dyno results a while back and I know the blip you speak of in the tune..

I Have a mod list for in the future, i wouldn't mind picking up some rdx injectors for ***** and grins ... people say they are great for the spray pattern..a larger throttle body, matched with the euroR or skunk2 manifold. Not sure how close this is on an EG to the firewall. performance items as well as things to make that part of the engine look a bit cleaner.

The stock intake manifold I have is just ugly looking, I made the egr blockoff plate out of the egr valve... it just needs to be freshened up a bit.

I dont think my injectors on the stock H22 really get topped out, I usually glance down at my Neptune Tunerview display at full throttle and it doesn't show more then 70% duty
450's seem big.

 

Everything I read and was told, said that my injectors shouldn't be maxed out. But Smanager said I was at 95%, at 8k. I upgraded to the DSM 450's and it dropped into the 70's. I tuned it to 13:1.

 

I think my nickname should be Fuel Stinge when I tune..I would really like to do some full throttle runs, peak out Ignition timing then start messing with fuel to see exactly where power starts dropping off.

and do this for various points in the rpm range... granted I know how much dyno time costs but I think at some point it might be worth it to dial in some settings a bit more accurate.


And an update to the original post HrTuning sent me a pm regarding what timing should be on the low cam, I'll do some major overhaul edit to my low cam tune and post the results eventually.

21@2000
27@2600
29@3100
30@3600
31.25@4000
33.25@4500
34.5@5400
37@6300

vtec is at 4800 when I set it last so the numbers over 4500 are kinda moot.

although at 4000rpm that seems pretty close to what my high cam ignition timing is at wot.



One thing that I have noticed or would like to learn about more, when you have a car running some restrictive headers and a restrictive exhaust and you tune it at lets say 31.5 degrees is where it makes the most power at 7000rpm, then later you put on a better intake, better filter, better headers, no cat, and a full 3 inch exhaust without taking it back to the dyno to retune it what does that do to the max ignition value since the whole setup flows a ton better?

I also like the fact that I don't have black soot on my bumper anymore due to exhaust gas being quite a bit faster coming out the *** end of my car!

 

That is WAY more advanced then I was running. But I was using the Hondata map with only changing the timing on the lower RPM, high cam map. I tried running a MAP from someone else that was for a Type S motor and I had some crazy knocking. I forget what kind of timing the map had, but I removed 10* before the knocking went away. Moral of the story, all motors are different.

I would think adding those mods would need a decrease in timing. This is due to the fact that the cylinder pressure would be higher, due to the increase in volumemetric efficiency.

 

Well.. I actually spoke with this tuner in Jamica over skype...all the stereo types you hear about jamacians voices is true... was hailarious.. ANYWAY.. He tuned with neptune H22's all the time.. H22 is a popular swap down there over b16/b18 which is kinda crazy.. either way he was helping me look at my tune about 8 months ago the type S's run about 38* of timing @ 11.0:1 and I think mine is 10.4:1 which runs about 32-31* although I have not been back to tune it since I have my super'dupe headers... thats what im going to call them from now on.

see I would think the opposite, adding a new intake manifold, headers, better exhaust or no exhaust would cause air to travel more freely though the head causing the motor to allow more ignition timing... I'm not suggusting you add 20 degrees but I'm talking somewhere in the range of 1-2 degrees possibly.

And talking about all this crap I need to start working on my car!

Current list of things to do
1) Take off thermostat housing / plug / Tig up the tubes going to the IACV heater/ FICV hose loop since it looks crappy.

2) Take off and plug / Tig up the power steering lines and eliminate the hose loop... it looks gay.

3) Buy Skank2 / Euro R intake manifold and port matched throttle body / fuel rail... I hate the jdm h22 fuel rail I dislike the fact that the fuel inlet and return are on the same side.

anyway all off topic items.

again I'll edit the map tonight hopefully and post screenshots

 

Hey guys,

Managed to do some updates on the tune tonight, I took HR tunings suggestions and adjusted the ignition curves at high load.

Just need to make sure the cruise ignition curves are good.

I have a 3 inch exhaust, along with some Highend headers.. very good flowing exhaust...zero back pressure... so I have always enjoyed how rally cars when decelerate they backfire a bit.. so I wanted to recreate that and I have found that having very high ignition timing at a Mbar pressure lower then that of around 250mbar which is what cruise is for my H22 not sure if its that for all tunes/engines.. anyway that is why that top ignition line seems higher then the rest of them.

Now I just need to make sure that the high load ignition timing line is accurate. If thats the case I just need to determine the spacing between each line and see if thats a linear relationship or if its just all over the place... I know there is an answer somewhere.. if I have to keep throwing values at the car... so be it!

Its an ongoing project to build a near perfect h22a basemap for the masses and get some better direction as to how to properly tune.

Tired of seeing maps where tuners just adjust the last 3 columns and send people on their own way.

Attached is what I have so far, along with the tune.

Oh and another note.. I made ignition timing 16* solid from 500-1000 rpm, as I doubt the engine will be under HIGH load at that rpm, again another tip from HRtuning!

Thanks again,
Again if anyone wants to call bullshit on any of this, please PLEASE chime in I want to know.

--Aaron