non-VTEC

ok so I'm sick of everyone always asking how much power my engine can put down. truth is i had it dyno'ed over a year ago but never told anyone just because i didn't feel like telling anyone.

anyway incase anyone gives a **** here is the setup at time of dyno tune.

ported non-VTEC head with .5mm O/S valves
JE 11:1 forged pistons with eagle rods
ITR intake manifold (modified to fit the non-VTEC head)
crower 403 cams+crower cam gears+crower valve springs and crower ti-retainers.
64mm bored throttle body
RC 310cc injectors
PYR custom programed chip (wrong program, was for a B18B)
custom 3" CAI with dirty filter
Ractive 4-1 header with modified 2.5" collector
2.5" carsound cat + 2.5" custom exhaust all the way back
Apexi-SAFC

and that all i can think of right now......there are a few other minor things....

dynorun.004 was the baseline run on how i brought the car to the dyno shop. it was running below 10:1 air/fuel ratio . (yep the engine is ****ed now)

dynorun.024 and dynorun.025 was after a couple hours of tuning with the SAFC + cam gears + distributor. and it made 178+WHP and 140+ft/lbs



and just for all you guys who says N/A non-VTEC is not worth it and wont notice the difference much. here is the dyno plot of my original bone stock B18B vs. my N/A B20




as it stands right now i was running the engine for so long without proper dyno tuning prior to that date and so the overly rich air/fuel ratio caused so much cylinder wash down to occur and so the engine now consumes a rediculas ammout of oil.

so....even with the "mild" crower 403's i was able to almost make almost 180whp with a shitty tune and half worn out-oil buring engine. with a fresh engine and proper ECU tuning i think it would have made close to 190whp.

colourfull criticism is always welcome....


********EDIT**********

just incase anyone would like to see how the B20 cylinder sleeves crack here is a shot of my B20 just before i pulled it out of the car.



how you may ask? dentonation killed it once i leaned it out enough.....also notice how worn the cylinder walls are and how much oil burning/buildup was on the pistons. the wear and tear was contributed by the ammout of fuel being dumped into the cylinders washing the cylinder walls down. eventually causing it to burn about 1 liter of oil in less than 500miles. it was horrible to drive.

non-VTEC

oh and all this is in a heavy tank of a 4 door integra......

Propulsion

good numbers, how's the idle and gas milage?

H2nr

good numbers for non Vtec I guess but I still dont understand why you would pay so much money to stay nonvtec went you could get more power for less money with a Vtec head and stock B20 short block. I guess I just dont understand the whole nonvtec craze.

96b18c

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good numbers for non Vtec I guess but I still dont understand why you would pay so much money to stay nonvtec went you could get more power for less money with a Vtec head and stock B20 short block. I guess I just dont understand the whole nonvtec craze.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Torque? I've spent a shitload of money and my torque isn't near 140.

hybrid_vtec

Nice # for 403 cams!

My setup is similar, except I have 404's instead of 403's(I used to have 403's though good cams)! I also have a PYR chip and my car runs super rich! I need it tuned bad, just gotta get the money first!

My question is how much of a bitch was it to tune the fuel with your SAFC? I have an SAFC 2 and I am wondering if I should tune it on the chip settings or put ECU back to stock program and tune from there!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good numbers for non Vtec I guess but I still dont understand why you would pay so much money to stay nonvtec went you could get more power for less money with a Vtec head and stock B20 short block. I guess I just dont understand the whole nonvtec craze.</TD></TR></TABLE>

PPL like us get this a lot! Look at it like this, add up the cost to do a vtec conversion and build it compared to doing a nonvtec build and the cost difference is night and day! Also not that many ppl aren't out to rob your **** b/c you have parts that they cant use!

It all boils down to if you know what you are doing, you can be a dangerous ****!


This is my build including motor and tranny(GSR w/ LSD at that) all for under $2500.

Check it out:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=978028

FrostyDC4

Nice #'s

non-VTEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SilverCIVIC96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good numbers, how's the idle and gas milage?</TD></TR></TABLE>

idle is good and smooth and fuel mileage is pretty good also once it was tuned. i dont have the SAFC anymore I'm running my own custom uberdata program for now.

as for the user who doesn't get the whole non-vtec n/a thing. its your opinion and your entitled to it....but i would rather have 180whp around 7000rpm over 200+whp at 9000+rpm anyday for a street car.

as for the cost of it......of course its expensive. no one ever said making horsepower would be cheap. how much money will it cost you to gain 50+whp n/a on a vtec engine......probably just as much as it does on a non-VTEC if not more since VTEC parts are usually double the cost.

freakin_eLRoD

WOW! those are some numbers! Very impressive, especially the amount of torque that motor is putting out. Have you timed it yet?

hOndafienD 04

those numbers seem kinda low to me....whats some base numbers for a stock b20?

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

as for the user who doesn't get the whole non-vtec n/a thing. its your opinion and your entitled to it....but i would rather have 180whp around 7000rpm over 200+whp at 9000+rpm anyday for a street car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree

Dan GSR

nice

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hOndafienD 04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><U>those numbers seem kinda low to me</U>....whats some base numbers for a stock b20?
</TD></TR></TABLE>


Not for Crower 403's!

StyleTEG

awesome numbers, congratz

Rob Dizzle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">awesome numbers, congratz</TD></TR></TABLE>
werd

it shows how helpful having .2 more liters is.

H2nr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

idle is good and smooth and fuel mileage is pretty good also once it was tuned. i dont have the SAFC anymore I'm running my own custom uberdata program for now.

as for the user who doesn't get the whole non-vtec n/a thing. its your opinion and your entitled to it....but i would rather have 180whp around 7000rpm over 200+whp at 9000+rpm anyday for a street car.

as for the cost of it......of course its expensive. no one ever said making horsepower would be cheap. how much money will it cost you to gain 50+whp n/a on a vtec engine......probably just as much as it does on a non-VTEC if not more since VTEC parts are usually double the cost.

</TD></TR></TABLE>Here is what we built for my best friend. B20z shortblock (completely stock) stock GSR head (not milled), stock springs cams and all, stock GSR intake mani and TB, DC JDM 4-1 header, stock GSR ecu with a Vafc, 181fwhp@7800rpm with 139tq on a dynojet. Using a Vtec head doesnt mean you rev to the moon. I am not trying to down what you have accomplished, I just dont unerstand the craze. Its like I said I can make more power for less money using a Vtec.

JDMs1eeper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hOndafienD 04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">those numbers seem kinda low to me....whats some base numbers for a stock b20?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

my stock B20 made 149.8 whp and 145ftlbs w/ i/h/e LS cams tuned w/ a SAFC. So i think his numbers are pretty damn nice

hOndafienD 04

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDM S1eeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

my stock B20 made 149.8 whp and 145ftlbs w/ i/h/e LS cams tuned w/ a SAFC. So i think his numbers are pretty damn nice </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah seems about right

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is what we built for my best friend. B20z shortblock (completely stock) stock GSR head (not milled), stock springs cams and all, stock GSR intake mani and TB, DC JDM 4-1 header, stock GSR ecu with a Vafc, 181fwhp@7800rpm with 139tq on a dynojet. Using a Vtec head doesnt mean you rev to the moon. I am not trying to down what you have accomplished, I just dont unerstand the craze. Its like I said I can make more power for less money using a Vtec.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Compare your dyno to the one posted above, 2 totally different powerbands! That non-vtec more than likely made gobs of power before your motor did!

IMO everyone has their own way and who is to question how you do it! I have been on both sides of the game and seen the pros and cons of each! Maybe you dont see it, but thats b/c you never tried it! There are plenty fast cars in this world and many of them never had vtec and were not even a honda!

Rollo Lawson

damn.....good numbers, bump for Louie.

fsufan814

im gonna have to say im impressed just by the fact that you are trying to be different and doing an amazing job while doing it, btw is the b20 block sleeved? have you thought about it? the cyl walls are hella weak and have seen them crap out even on all motor builds when close to the 200whp range

non-VTEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fsufan814 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im gonna have to say im impressed just by the fact that you are trying to be different and doing an amazing job while doing it, btw is the b20 block sleeved? have you thought about it? the cyl walls are hella weak and have seen them crap out even on all motor builds when close to the 200whp range</TD></TR></TABLE>

the B20 sleeves are stock. the engine will be seeing a re-sleeve in the near future with a totally diffrent setup so im not gonna concern myself with the weak B20 sleeves anymore.

night

first, im surprised you didnt go with oversized valves?


any, a 2 liter is nice either way. seems completely arbitrary to me. the cost of a vtec head vs an LS + cams. its not really any different in the end. just a matter of how crazy you want to go compared to things like max power, daily driven, and mileage .

but i dont buy the non-v having more down low. any 2 liter is gonna have a good amount lower changeover point, and argueing over anything lower than 4-4500ish rpm in a manual 4 cylinder *honda* seems plain stupid.
now, my motor made power at 3000 and i could spin the wheels dropping the clutch at 1800rpm, but then again, that was a 12valve iron block 2 liter with a 6300 redline


as a side note, i want to see a dyno of a bone stock B20Z + vtec head + BC3+ cams. i think that is the best bang for the buck.

H2nr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but i would rather have 180whp around 7000rpm over 200+whp at 9000+rpm anyday for a street car.</TD></TR></TABLE>also, if you have 200hp @ 9000 you probably are making 180hp @ 7000

hybrid_vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also, if you have 200hp @ 9000 you probably are making 180hp @ 7000
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honestly, I give you that one! Good point!

I think he meant however is he would rather make 180 whp @ 7K than 180 whp @ 9K