t0p_sh0tta

Morning everybody. Seeing as how we don't drive Hondas anymore...lettuce discuss another relic.

I'm helping a friend with a drivability issue on his 2.4L 2000 Galant.

He has had a CEL for P0107 (Fuel Trim Malfunction Bank 1), and P0455 (EVAP System Large Leak), without any drivability issues for as long as I can remember.

However, this week the car decided that it no longer wanted to run.

Symptoms

-Turns over just fine.
-Difficult to keep running.
-Only starts when stepping on (flooring) the gas.
-Fine at high RPMs, but stalls frequently at idle. (Sometimes it'll idle 5 min without issue).
-Does not break up, putt, stumble, etc., above 2-3k RPM.

In the last 3k miles, I've replaced the valve cover gasket, spark plugs, spark plug wires, primary 02 sensor and the fuel cap.

It sounds like there is a vacuum leak under the intake manifold, so I hooked it up to a smoke machine. I used the brake booster line, which is downstream of the throttle body.

There was a decent amount of smoke exiting from the EGR valve, so is it safe to say that the diaphragm is done, and replace it? I don't see how the EGR leak would throw an EVAP code though, so there must be another leak somewhere in the system. Any ideas?

ZTwentyH8

The problem is your friend owns a Galant.

t0p_sh0tta

I concur. However, it's his sole means of transportation at the moment, and he can't keep driving my beater.

cetcivic

CD5B2

Swap a 4G63 engine from an eclipse in there, build it up a bit and get some NOS too. Just don't use too much. You might blow the welds on the intake and the mad scientist will have to tear apart the block if you fry the piston rings.

They make codes for a reason, you diagnose then replace the part/system stated in the code. Simple

Rguy

****, and we're two weeks out from race wars too.

Rguy

Also, check fuel pump.

CD5B2

Hahahahahahah

stackz

burn it to the ground

t0p_sh0tta

time to get it out of my yard.

CBXweb

Damn, he came correct with info and got shitted on. There's no hope.

t0p_sh0tta

IM is about the only thing on the car that is good. He took it for a 30 min drive yesterday with zero issues. Well, at least until he got home. Died 2 houses away from his and wouldn't restart.

slowcivic2k

I've seen three manifolds break at the throttle body weld, and cause that type of a problem. Oddly enough, each time another mechanic could not find out what was wrong.... lol

You have an air problem, which will be easy enough to fix. When did this start by the way? After the tune up? Does it start like this hot or cold? When it does idle, does it idle at rated speed?

Some EGR valve have a natural leak at the housing, and I honestly do not know if this is one of them. I can say though, that I have never put an EGR valve on a 2.4l in my career. If you are still leary of it remove the vacuum line going to the diaphragm and plug it and drive. A leak that small shouldn't cause the engine to stall though.

The P0455 is a large evap leak, and probably the fuel cap or something else large and noticeable, like a cracked line. Even this in itself should not be enough to stall the engine.

P0107 is a manifold pressure code. If you do not have a scan tool, check engine vacuum with a gauge if you have one. This is for low output, which is the typical failure method of most MAP sensors. They get gummed up, and then stop moving. If you are able to unplug it, do so and see if your problem is resolved. This should force the ECM to default air tables to idle, assuming a "standard engine".

Did you mean P0171? That is more likely given the description, and almost exclusively points to an air leak. This can be rather dangerous, but is very useful for finding the source of a vacuum leak.

1: Perform a basic inspection and wiggle test of all vacuum connections on the manifold, fix as required.

2: If you cannot see a leak, use a brake parts cleaner with the straw, and spray small amounts around the manifold gaskets, hoses, adapters etc. Do this with the engine idling.

3: If the engine rpm increases while you are spraying, you have found a leak, repair as required.

A leak should be found, pretty quickly using this method. If not, post back and I will detail the next steps I would take.

DCFIVER

Its a modern vehicle with plenty of diagnostic data to steer you in the right direction. Get a scan tool a put up some trim,load, O2 and MAF numbers at cruise and WOT, otherwise your guess is as good as ours....

(note: it is normal for some EGRs to leak during a smoke test and the EGR is NOT part of the Evap sytem)
Or take it to a shop.....

t0p_sh0tta

He finally took it to a shop, and allegedly it was the cam position sensor.

Thanks guys.

slowcivic2k

For the sake of completeness, please explain to us why the cam sensor was replaced. If the cam sensor was to be open, a code specific to that problem would appear. If it was to be shorted, likewise it would also produce a code.

If it were to be "off" by a little bit you would have a cam/crank correlation code, indicating the sensor moved or the belt jumped, etc.

All of these these potential solutions to your problem make absolutely no sense given your symptoms.

You never answered if the code you were chasing was a P0107 or p0171.