gnarlycs

I just put some bigger wheels on my car. (17 inch rims) Now I need to make it stay level/flat while cornering. What would be the best thing (most cost effective) thing to do?

alphalanos

Well first of all they are very different things. What kind of tires do you have? all the bars in the world wont do much with non performance tires. I would drop the wheel size down to 15 or 16 for weight, tire sizing, and performance. However the most cost effective thing, after you have good tires (performance summer tires) to do is add a rear sway bar. I used a 22mm type R rear bar with an ASR brace, and the stock front bar. The car was on 15 rota slips and good summer tires, with koni shock and h&r springs. You need to be careful with this type of setup as the rear is very stiff and easy to oversteer and spin out. You could go with a smaller rear bar than a 22 if you wanted a little more balance. a tower bar doesnt really do a whole lot especially on a street car.

also remember that the whole suspension system works together. meaning you will need to match the characteristics of each part. The spring rate must be stiff enough for the ride height, and the shock must be able to control the spring.

gnarlycs

why do you suggest i go with a rear sway bar instead of a front one? doesn't most of the weight, when cornering, fall on the front two wheels?

Tyson

the difference between a strut bar and a swaybar is so great that they shouldnt even be used in the same sentence.

first, i think we need to define what each item is you listed.

a swaybar is often called anti-roll(sway) bar, because that is more of what it does, preventing roll rather than promoting. its just easier to say swaybar. this item is a functional, active part of the suspension. ive not seen any swaybar, either front or rear or both, sold relatively cheaply on ebay. a swaybar connects the suspension of the two sides together and resists the independent motion of each. so if on one side, the wheel is being pushed down, the other wheel is being pushed down as well. same thing if one is going up, the other is pushed up. This will in effect add or subtract to the spring rate on the wheel when you need it most, during turning. it theoretically would not change anything when going straight over a speedbump when both wheels are moving the same amount. however youll feel the effect of the swaybar when one wheel goes over a pothole moreso because youve taken away fro mthe independent suspension. you can have a front swaybar connecting the two front wheels, or in the rear, or both.

a strut bar is a structural addition to the chassis. it is not a part of the suspension. however, it does resist unintended displacement of suspension points when the chassis is under handling forces. this actually is more important in cars with macphersion suspension where the suspension pushes a lateral force at the top of the strut mounted to the chassis. this is why its called a strut bar, even tho not all cars have struts. movement of the top strut anchor would mean an extra change in suspension geometry, basically camber, usually in a negative way. but it actually isnt so much of an effect with honda double wishbone suspension. the strut bar still does function as a structural member and helps maintain chassis rigidity.

a tie BAR is another structural member that is intended to resist any chassis flex. these are placed underneath the chassis and bolts to two points on the suspension, but not on a moving part. its just a chassis stiffener.

a tie ROD, as mentioned is part of the steering, most ppl will talk of tie rods as the actual tie rod END that is at the far ends of the steering rack and connects to the knuckle with a ball joint.

the part that will most affect how your car handles is going to be the swaybar, because its the only part that is an active member of the suspension. let me reiterate, a strut bar and tie bar are NOT part of the suspension, a sway bar IS. very general principles of handling are dictated by differences between front and rear traction. oversteer is a CONDITION (*1) where the front tires have RELATIVELY more grip than the rear, so during a turn the rear tires are going to slide out and have a bigger arc, think of a spinning car still moving in one direction basically as ultra extreme exampble. understeer is the opposite - the car does not want to rotate because the rears have more grip. general rule of suspension - stiffen the rear for oversteer, stiffen the front for understeer.

therefore, adding a swaybar to the front will PROMOTE A CONDITION of understeer. and conversely adding a rear swaybar will promote a condition of oversteer. adding both, well you get an all around stiffer car. i recommend the spring/shock setup you currently have, and then adding a rear swaybar. but i also would recommend that adding that front sway bar will give you that "riding on rails" feeling in handling. a lot of ppl seem to like that too. its up to you. you can get a kit and play with it to what you like. you can ask which one is better or "BEST" than the others, they all seem to work, some have adjustable positions. Suspension Techniques is a popular brand.

now theres a lot of cheap options for a front strut bar. when i added a NEUSPEED front strutbar to my otherwise stock CRX, i actually can say i notice a difference in handling, in a positive way it seemed. im not sure if the cheap ones work as well, as i havent tried. but why bother with cheap stuff. now, my opinion from other ppls feedback on REAR strutbars is that they are not useful and do not change anything. looks like it would really get in the way of the hatchspace anyway. doesnt seem worth it.

ive not added any tie bar to my car, my opinion is that either front or rear is unecessary. the crossmembers in the front and back are part of the strongest and most rigidly designed parts of the car. it seems its just flashy metal to me. not saying stock has no room for improvement, i just wouldnt get caught up with adding structural rigidity where its not needed as much. again, its not like it directly affects handling.

Footnotes:
(*1)i say condition because ANY car can be either be driven to a state of understeer or oversteer, without any change to the suspension. changing the suspension to alter the cars handling PROMOTES one condition or the other, but ppl who dont understand this think of cars with certain setups as "oversteer" or "understeer" when either is simply a state during the turn and is always changing in degree. its typical a car can exhibit corner ENTRY oversteer, and corner EXIT understeer. but that alone is dependent on HOW the driver actually drives the car into and out of the turn.

gnarlycs

wow Tyson, that was an excellent post. i read all of it and learned a lot. so getting a rear sway would be the best thing to do for me? i'm just wondering, would the rear sway bar keep the WHOLE car relativity flat and level when cornering. i'm trying to get rid of the wheel rubbing in the wheel well when cornering.

Kozy.

Yes, the front and rear have to roll the same amount, other wise the chassis is twisting.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Having FINALLY installed my rear swaybar I can ell you that it keeps the car "flat".

0GearHeadDeals.com

The chassis is twisting all the time so I wouldn't really worry about that aspect.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

I think that was just to paint a picture of what was going on.

0GearHeadDeals.com

I know. Just letting the OP know that it's not a problem.

FlewByU352

The correct way is to go with high spring rates and control bias with swaybars. Rather most put massive bars on and light springs. Daily driver or race car, pick one!

gnarlycs

none.

also, what are some good brands to go with for sway bars?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Stock.

gnarlycs

did the EX models have them stock? so i could just go to a junk yard and find one and then bolt it right on my car?

98civdx

It had a front sway bar, but only the SI came with a rear sway bar. (this is if we're talking a 96-00 civic)

A SI or DC rear bar would work pretty well, but most would reccomend upgrading to a CTR/ITR sway bar with a subframe brace.

I would start with changing out the springs/shocks, and toss a SI/DC sway bar in it for now. if you feel you need more upgrade to a larger bar.

Kozy.

By minute amounts, yes. For the front and rear axles to roll different amounts, you'd be twisting it a lot, to the point of it being visible.

Lateral acceleration should result in the same travel for both front and rear wheels, no matter what the relative stiffness is on each axle. The only difference is the wheel loads.

0GearHeadDeals.com

In a perfect, steady-state turn, of constant radius, under ideal conditions, and an infinitely stiff chassis. Sure.

Kozy.

So are you suggesting in anything other than that impossible scenario, the front and rear axles always roll different amounts? Obviously there are minute differences due to the chassis flexing fractions of a degree, but no-one in an old Honda is really concerned with that level of detail.

Generally speaking, in the absence of any longitudinal accelerations both axles will roll the same amount to within a sensible degree of accuracy.

0GearHeadDeals.com

No buddy, sorry. Obviously both you and I know what's going on. I was just poking fun.

Kozy.

KY2K20

If you get a front strut bar off an ex,hx,or si for your dx, you will also need the front lca's.

You can also gets a camber kit and run some negative camber. It will help you clear your fenders and give you some better handling characteristics as well.

Or you could get your fenders rolled.

But to answer your original question, Sway bars will help your car run "flatter" and have less body roll.

Tyson

Bump for noobs

PERRIN_ADAM

Ah just get em both!