xsenceo89x

update: Problem solved

I dont normally post but I posted this topic on 8thcivic and nobody said anything. I installed Skunk2 Pro S2 coilovers on my 08 civic and noticed they bounced alot. I hit up the google and saw the bounce was a normal thing. I was disappointed in these coilovers and was going to sell them because they rode so shitty. I was cruising at around 80 and getting thrown out of my seat and into the air. After playing with these things for a while I finally figured out that the rubber inside this thing (shock mount / pillow mount / top hat / I dont know its real name) is designed to be able to move. These coilovers utilize the factory upper shock mount. This mount has a bushing inside of it. As you can see the top part flexes(refer to video 1 below). The problem is the springs are too stiff and this movement doesnt let the shock completely do its job. It will feel as if you are riding on a pogo stick. This is that bouncy feeling that everyone describes. Im sure Skunk2 is aware of this problem by now as they've come out with these coilovers in 2007. Other coilovers dont have it because other coilovers come with a solid mount. After further research, these coilovers have alot of potential. Redshiftperformance tested these specific coilovers and found the springs match the shocks pretty well. Once I tell anyone about the coilover problem im having, all I hear is "theyre bouncy because they dont have a shock adjustment."

VIDEO REFERENCE #1

So instead of throwing in the towel, I went ahead and polyurethaned the mounts. I wanted to take the play out of the bushing. I used the German version of "window weld." I plan on letting them sit until Saturday. Its been super humid so I hope this helps make them fully cure. After a day the play appears to be gone.

*Fast forward about a week*

My theory was correct but the polyurethane idea didnt hold up for long. It was alright for about a couple of mins then it just let go. Now were back to square one. Im probably just going to wait 5 months until December and I might go home on leave.

You can see whats actually happening in this video here.

Looking for some input. Any ideas? I want to use these things. I dont want to just let them sit in my basement.

Cliff notes
-Watch this -Shock mount isnt strong enough to isolate the top of the shock. It results in the car bouncing
-Cant find anybody that makes these mounts for a reasonable price (Looked under camber mount/pillow mount/top hat/shock mount).
-Stationed overseas and cant find anyone who will weld it. All my welding stuff is at my parents house and I wont be able to visit until possibly Christmas.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I believe you can buy solid upper mounts. Though, I'm not sure thats your issue. Are you sure you assembled these properly?

xsenceo89x

Everything has been assembled correctly.This has been an ongoing problem for years on the 8th gen. Apparently only one other person has figured it out. Everyone just sells them or deals with it.

I cant find the mounts I need. They need to be able to work with the factory diameter spring. Only ones I found are for aftermarket coilovers with a smaller diametet.

SpeedRacerEX-R

Wish I could help. My Megan Coilovers came with new top hat and camber plates.

xsenceo89x

What if I welded in this to the stock mount somehow
Race Ready > Fk Spherical Bearing Cups

and then threw in these bearings
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fkb-wssx10t/overview/

or the FKS10
Race Ready > Fks T Heavy Duty Spherical Bearings Alloy Steel

I was going to bottom out the top part of the OE mount and weld it in place but the shock needs to flex. My idea is like a $60-$80 gamble. I assume this C clip will be able to hold it. The second bear can hold 40k but I dont know if thats side to side or up and down.

My other dumb idea was I could cut out the top part and weld in the tophat style thats used in the 92-00 civic. I think that bushing might be enough because its also found in the rear

B serious

iTrader: (1)

92-00 civics aren't mcpherson strut. Your top hats are also bearings.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

BTW, it definitely appears that there is something wrong with your top hats or that they are incorrectly assembled. I don't remember my stock top hats on my 06 doing that. I sold the old stock suspension and the car a while back though...so I can't go look.

I'd probably curb all the crazy ideas about crazy fabrication. Why would the stock suspension not make the car bounce?

Something is either broken or incorrectly installed, man.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

The area that you are showing should not flex with the shock. Its there just as a top washer.

The shock shaft should be fixed against the BOTTOM bushing of the top hat. When the shock is put into a bump cycle, the large part of the shock shaft should stop against the BOTTOM bushing on the top hat. That washer up top is there to keep the shaft from pulling through on rebound.

You're missing a washer or two in your install. Or you have things in the incorrect order.

xsenceo89x

My idea was to cut out the rubber part of the 06 civic top hat and weld in the very top part of the 92-00. This was just talking out loud. I decided not to do this.

I appreciate your help but I assure you everything is correctly installed. The arrows are facing the right way and all. The mounts do this with the stock suspension but its extremely minor. If you put your hand on top of the top hat and jumped on the car, you could feel it.

The reason why its so obvious with the aftermarket parts is because the new parts are a huge increase in stiffness. The shock is valved to have more resistance because the spring rate has been increased. This results in more force to move it, exposing the mount. HPD actually made new mounts like these because it was a weak point. Check out the video on this page. Club Racer Show ? Honda Racing HPD Civic Si camber/caster plates

I went ahead and ordered bearings and mounts. Theyre the .500 hole ones. Number 8. Il bump this thread again once I figure out how im going to weld it all in without tools lol

B serious

iTrader: (1)

With stiffer springs, bump damping goes down or stays the same...not up. Rebound would increase.

Bump damping on those Skunk2's may be a bit higher to increase roll stiffness. But...not high enough to seperate mounts like that. If they are that stiff, then they shouldn't be designed for work with stock hats.

It seems as if when you tighten the top nut, the bushings are not compressing. So when the shock goes through a bump cycle, the shock shaft is too long and it pushes them up.

Try adding a few thick washers between the shock shaft and the bottom bushing of the top hat. The top hat bushing should have compression on it when the top nut is tightened.

xsenceo89x

"If they are that stiff, then they shouldn't be designed for work with stock hats." This is it right here. I think skunk2 was penny pinching to get the lowest coilover price which resulted in this. I was hoping one of them would post on one of the sites I posted this problem on but nothing so far. Every other coilover has a top hat with it that uses a spherical bearing. The only other spring rate that gets high enough to compare is the Neuspeed race springs but I think theyre progressive and not linear like the skunk2. Even some of those people use the $380 asr plates.

Ive tried every preload option possible. I lowered the perches to where there was an inch of play for the spring and it still did it. I dont see how anything will work with the mount like that. Its the same result as if I left the nut off the top of the shock.

Generally speaking rebound and dampening go hand and hand whether it be high speed or low speed dampening. If you took an adjustable shock and tried to compress it on a low setting it would be much easier than on a higher setting. The end result in my case is there is too much give in this thing.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

When you turn the ***** on an adjustable shock, it either adjusts rebound damping exclusively, like a Koni Yellow. Or it adjusts MOSTLY rebound damping with some cross talk into bump damping.

The 8G Si is not the only honda with that shock design. Skunk2 isn't the only aftermarket coilover that re uses the stock hats. KW, Bilstein, Tein, etc, all make coilovers that reuse the stock hats. KW's and Bilsteins usually have comparatively higher low speed bump damping than other coilovers.

Your issue is what seems to be uncommon...not your setup.

The issue I see with your car is that the lower bushing on the tophat is deflecting too much, and/or the portion of the shock shaft that goes through the top hat is too long. Since you're saying that it is 100% for sure assembled correctly, we can put incorrect installation aside.

The reason I suggested adding washers UNDER the top hat lower bushing is to see if adding more length in that portion helps.

When you tighten the top nut....are you compressing the bushings BEFORE the threads bottom out?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

If the lower top hat bushing is somehow indeed compressing too much, a thick washer that is the same diameter as the tophat "cup" outer wall will work to stop the shock shaft from coming up.

The shock shaft has a larger diameter step where the polished portion starts. That step needs a washer on top of it.

KnowwhatImean?

xsenceo89x

Back from the dead.

Im close to $50 in and this is what I got. Its pretty ****ty looking so I added some bling with the blue.

I separated the rubber from the top and bottom part of the mount. Once apart, I took the top part and hack sawed off the part where the nut sits in. I welded the cup to the top part. Then I welded the top back onto the bottom. I used FKCP-08 bearing cups. I Chinese blueprinted and added a little slant like the factory top hat. Threw in some FKS8T spherical bearings and the top mount is solid. This was done with a $80 harbor fright 90amp flux core welder. This cheap little welder is awesome. Ive had it for like 5 years and welded a bunch of exhausts/brackets/rounded bolts/random quick repairs.

^^^As you can see that top hat problem is gone

^^^Video shows my new problem is the tires. Currently working on new tires.

After my tophat upgrade these work really well. There is a tiny bounce from the tires but I bet anyone with cheap all seasons and stiff suspension will have it. I havent cornered on bumpy surfaces yet but on a nice road they feel good.