Rak1591

i have a 99 em1, looking to get the brake system upgraded. i am all motor at about 190whp so no boost. i am looking for the best combination of pads/rotors using stock calipers. i will go bbk in future but for now stock calipers. what are your suggestions?

r_Senik

Heard nothing but good things about brembo and hawk pads. Look in the sponser market place, someone might have a deal in there for you.

testify

Braking has nothing to do with horsepower, it has everything to do with mechanical grip.


Hawk HP+ brake pads. Rumor is they are reverse engineered from alien technology.

Soon as you put them on your car, you'll need 2 or 3 times the tire grip you currently have.

I recommend 225 R888's at the minimum.

Unless you stage rally or road race, a BBK won't make your stop any better.

You probably won't take my recommendation, but if you do, you'll be amazed.

Remember, I said HP+. Make sure you get HP+.

jwmelvin

What do you use the car for? On my track-only EM1 I use Hawk DTC-60 in front and Hawk Blue (9012) in back. Probably not the best for the street. On other cars I have used HP+ on the street and they are much more effective than run-of-the-mill pads.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I just got done with a track weekend. My friend drove my 00 ITR with a K24 (probably around 220-230whp), and RE71R tires. Though both of us were just putting around, the car managed a 1:48 around GMR long track. 1:48 is slow for that car...but is still a fairly quick time for street cars on similar tires.

The car was on blank rotors and stoptech sport (street performance) pads. The brakes never came close to fading.

The car is full weight with AC. And it had 2 people in it for most of the sessions. Ran 2 days flawlessly.

These pads also work just fine on the street. No noise or corrosive dust. They last a long time, are rotor friendly, and were about $80 shipped from rockauto for the front and rear set. They have a approx 1300F MOT. I use them as summer DD pads on my S2000.

Hawk HP+ is noisy, has corrosive dust, eats rotors, and has a 900F MOT. They're good autocross pads because of their hard low temp bite. They are NOT street pads. And are NOT track pads.

Any pad requires a bed-in. If you do not bed in a performance pad, you may crash. So read the instructions and bed them in. They will NOT stop properly until you bed them in.

I suggest buying new BLANK rotors to go along with them. Choose a brand. Doesn't matter. I like centric....but will buy whatever rockauto has on sale.

testify

Stop tech is Chinese garbage. They're as bad as EBC.

They are a laughing stock. They crumble and break apart under high temps. Ive seen this first hand dozens of times. Good thing you didn't push them too hard.

It's true, HP+ are not designed for road racing or stage rally, but it's physically impossible to fade them on the street and still keep your drivers license.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

While I have crumbled EBC yellows about 9 years ago when I started tracking a car....I have never crumbled Stoptech SP's. It could be that I'm braking more efficiently, but is likely because they are better pads.

I doubt you've tried them.

I would not suggest them for serious or semi-serious track use....and neither does centric. I use Carbotechs on my S2000.

For a high performance STREET pad, though, they are unbeatable. They are CAPABLE of light track use. That's my point. And no...they will never crumble on the street.

I can't think of anything (readily available/affable) else in the performance street arena besides the Hawk HPS. These are better than the HPS on the street...at half the price.

The HP+ makes a terrible street pad. Its loud, the dust ruins wheels, they chew rotors, and last about 20 mins.

I have tried all of the pads I have mentioned above.

testify

Hawk HPS is an OE replacement pad, and no matter what their marketing says, it offers very little friction. Most OE pads offer more friction. They are good for grandma's car and that's about it.

I've tried them all.

Only decent compromise pad I ever ran was the Porterfield R4S.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Are porterfields available in the US for a civic Si? How much are they?

The Stoptechs provide good bite and feel...which is important on the street. And they won't fade. And the dust is harmless. And they're rotor friendly. And they're inexpensive. And as you say, you'd have to be doing something absolutely illegal to even come close to pushing their limit.

We're likely talking about purely street use pads here. For a car that weighs 2600LB and makes a whopping 190whp.

Stoptechs would be overkill in this situation. And they're the only intermediate pad I've experienced that can bridge the gap.

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

Hawk HPS are great for the street and light autox. I overheated HPS' (car had rear drums) on a mini road course. Switched to HP+ and never had issues. HP+ for the front and HPS for the rear worked perfect in my factory weight 99 civic. Any blank rotor will do good for you. I used to use Motul dot 4 fluid, and switched to O'reillys dot 4 because of the cost. No complaints there either.

GL

testify

You really can't run HP+ in the rear on a FWD car under any circumstances anyway. It just causes constant lock up in the rear.

I suppose if you could adjust the brake bias, but that would defeat the purpose.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Well...OP isn't coming back. We'll never know what he's using his car for. Probably street driving.

Unless his answer is "almost only autocross, barely any street use and/or, I hate my wheel finish anyway", then HP+ is a terrible choice.

testify

I've got 6 cars thar use HP+ on the street.

My cars are not trailer queens or show cars. They get dirty with brake dust and I'm still alive. True story.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Yes. But they could have actual street pads that offer better braking, and less dust, and dust that isn't corrosive, and longer brake component life half the price with Stoptechs.

And no. They won't crumble and nobody will laugh at you.

testify

There is not a single pads from stoptech that offers more friction than HP+.

They don't have anything even remotely close.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

You need HP+ level bite for a street car? At the price of all the shitty things that I've pointed out?

Why not just use blues then, with that logic? More bite than HP+. Neither of them are street pads.

Or just use carbotech XP10's. All day. Eff it. Noise, dust, cost, lifespan. None of it matters. They bite hard when they're not scrubbed in.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

There are applications where the HP+ is desirable. Street use is absolutely not one of them. Dirty wheels aren't the only downside. Besides...its not dirty. Its RUINED wheels. Drive through a puddle. Now that **** is never coming off.

HPS is their only actual street compound. There's nothing that special about it. The stoptechs do everything better. They're fantastic street pads that are capable of light track use.

bspeed

Amen

Sprockets

iTrader: (6)

For years I've been using Axxis/PBR Ultimate pads on my turbocharged EM1 for the street. You used to be able to buy them cheap through vendors on H-T as a packaged deal with Brembo blanks. For some reason, they're not as easy to come by anymore. There were rumors that Stoptech are now selling the same pads under their brand name, and that's why they're no longer available in the US. However, I see that Import Replacement Parts, for example, lists them for sale. Not as cheap as they used to be, but they have them. Have you ever used Axxis Ultimates, and if so, how would you rate them compared to Stoptech?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I drove my friends 350Z on ultimates. But...not at the track.

At first, it did seem that the SP's were an Ultimates replacement. But a lot of sources say its not true.

My friend tracked his 350Z, that I mentioned above, on Ultimates and he said he got minor fade. It was a 6MT non track model with typical base model Nissan-sized (small/tiny/microscopic) brakes lol. The rotor surface looked similar to a rotor surface using SP's.

So...none of these comparisons are scientific. But I think that the SP's probably have a little more heat threshold than Ultimates.

The bite of properly broken in SP's is really nice. Linear...but strong. And pedal feel is great. There was some talk about the compound being less spongy for better pedal feel. Without bedding in, they, like P-Diddy "can't stop, won't stop". So definitely bed them in.

They're still very inexpensive at rockauto. They have by far the best up-front pricing I've seen on SP's. I bought an entire set for my ITR for $80 shipped. An S2000 or non-R 90's-2000's civic/integra set is about $10 less than that.

I believe they are called Stoptech Sport now. Rockauto sells them under the name of like...Centric Stoptech Sport or something. Look in the performance/stopping power section.

At those prices, its worth broadening your horizon to just check them out. I haven't met anyone that tried with an open mind that didn't like them. They've even won over the "these will never work" crowd.

Sprockets

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for the feedback. Some of the reviews complain about brake shudder if you don't drive aggressively enough. Everyone's idea of aggressive is different, though. Another brand that I was curious about is Akebono, although I don't know which version would be comparable to Ultimates or Stoptech Sports. Are they any good?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

I use the SP's as DD pads. I never got any brake shudder. However, they seem like they develop high spots on the rotor for cars left with brakes clamped...especially with wet rotors. So...store your car with the e brake off.

If...for some reason, they develop a shake, then you can "scrape" the rotor surface off with agressive driving. So that's good.

Akebono performance ceramics are pretty nice. They do not have the stopping power or fade resistance that the SP's do. But they have good bite and feel for a street ceramic pad. Different ends of the spectrum, IMO. They're low dust...and have a longer life. Ceramics seem more prone to brake pulsation issues when heated up and left clamped...like stopping hard coming off a ramp and leaving the pedal pushed at a light.

I use Wagner ceramics on my TSX...and I'm happy with them. But it has 4 piston 12.8", 30mm thick brakes. So...it stops regardless lol.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Akebono was/is an OE supplier for several brands, including Honda. If you buy a set of them you're most likely getting a brown-box OE pad (unless they state otherwise), not a performance pad.

98civdx

I have SI brakes all round on the civic. HPS/brembo blanks. They do the job for me. No track, but spirited street driving.

Sprockets

iTrader: (6)

I also remember years ago hearing that you should avoid using the emergency brake or holding your brakes at a light after aggressive driving. I can't remember if this was specific to Ultimate pads or in general. Ultimates use ceramic and Kevlar. Do the Stoptechs use ceramic in their Sport pads? They only mention Aramid.

That may be true, but they also have performance pads.