russian239

My car does not like to start:

After it was parked for just a day, it takes a LOT of cranking to start. So long that I am really close to giving up, and then a couple of puffs, and then it starts. Once it starts for the first time, I can stop it and it would start again just fine.

The battery is new and it is happy to crank for as long as I need. The car is a 95 Accord EX 2.2. The temperature here is 70F/20C, not really winter.

Where should I start to troubleshoot?

accordturb96

fuel pressure more than likely. are there a check engine light on? IF so start there, if not you need Air, Fuel, spark in order to have a running motor. Check for obvious issues if you can find any. I would guess it's a fuel pump issue or fuel pressure regulator

russian239

No, it's not fuel - it's probably spark.

I've added 5 gallons of gas just to be sure - this did not help. Fine, I've removed 1st cylinder spark - the spark plugs look pretty new, the spark looked OK. No spark! And I smell gas.

Now the funny part: I cannot remove the rest of the plugs! Number four I kind of can rotate it just a bit, but numbers #2 and #3 I am really afraid of breaking something! I'll leave them with some penetrating oil for the the night and try in the morning.

Any hints on removing the spark plugs? Any advice how NOT to break things? I wonder if these are still the factory plugs back from 1995 or what.

I know that all three dizzy sensors are providing the signal to the ECU and the ECU does provide the signal to the ignition module. Still, no spark. Time for a new distributor assembly? Am I right that the EX one is special, so I need the EX one, not any 1995 4 cylinder?

asoRm

check that ICM

accordturb96

well just because you added fuel doesnt mean its not fuel. How are you checking for spark exactly? Hopefully not like an old lawn mower.

russian239

How do I check this ICM? Is it inside the assembly, is it?

russian239

I think I smell fuel out of the spark plug hole, but yes I agree this does not mean much.

As for how I check, it could be the old lawn mover way - if only I new that way I've removed the spark plug, put it back into the wire and touched the head and the exhaust manifold while my wife was cranking the car. How should I have checked for spark?

accordturb96

haha well before you send yourself to the hospital or morgue, dont do that. You need to go to the auto store and ask them for a spark tester. Its basically a device that plugs onto the plug and allows the spark to arc inside itself so you can watch the intensity of it to determine how well it is working. It should be bright and strong. The method you used is the lawn mower method as I Call it. It can be dangerous as the amount of volts arching from the plug are plenty to cause harm to you especially if the arc connects with something and then onto you. Dont want you hurting yourself haha

russian239

Life is dangerous in general I was wondering if that could damage the car. I personally hope I am going to be fine - I am always using gloves and I am always holding it with the rubber on the wire, not on any metal.

Anyway, to be honest I think I've got hit by that once while I was starting my race car engine on a hoist. The arm felt funny, so you have a point that safety is in fact pretty important.

I kind of have found the instructions to check the coil (~15K resistance between two terminals and ~0.5 ohm between others), but still cannot find ICM testing procedure - there is a detailed post on this side but the pictures are gone and without the pictures I cannot figure it out.

accordturb96

eh the testers are cheap. Not sure what he meant with the icm. You could use the diagram to test the correct wires entering the distributor to test it as it does appear to be inside.

russian239

Looks like there is a way to test the ICM (ignition control module) with a multimeter, more or less the way you test the coil by measuring resistances between different terminals. But so far I am failing to find the exact instructions and I am failing to find in the Chilton 30150 book.

Update: Chilton 30150 book, section 2-7 shows expected resistance between 92-93 ICM terminals, but nothing for 94-95. Coil tested fine.

Should I just check that coil input gets some voltage while cranking? Would that be a test of the ICM?

russian239

Status update: $50 for a used dizzy have solved the problem.

I am confident that the sensors are fine and I've checked the coil - so I guess it's the ignition control module?

russian239

Damn, it does not start again. The engine spins, there was a couple of weak puffs and that's it. There is spark.

I've removed the bolt which plugs the fuel pressure pressure test point on the fuel rail. Was it supposed to spray fuel? Because it did not. I will loan a fuel pressure tester in an hour.

I do hear the fuel pump when I turn ignition on. I've checked fuel regulator vacuum hose and it is dry.

This leaves me with 1) fuel filter 2) fuel regulator 3) fuel pump. How do I figure out which one is at fault? I would really like the problem to be simple

tim73

Have you tried injecting starting fluid when it wont start? That will for sure tell you it is fuel. You can test the power going to the fuel pump by removeing the fuel pump/main relay, use a jumper between pins 1(Should be 12v battery voltage) and 7(Should be the wire going to the fuel pump), the fuel pump should start.

Also, to test teh ICM, you need to test it underload. So, you need to take it to the parts store...and have them test it several time...get it nice and warm.

russian239

I have tried with starting fluid into the air filter pipe and no, it did not start. The spark is white-ish and pretty large. It should have started, maybe I should try spraying right into throttle body.

I can hear the fuel pump buzzing for ~5 seconds when I turn ignition on and off. I have remove the bolt on the rail - see picture - and I did not get fuel gashing out

russian239

I am back trying to figure out what's going on here. I am currently focused on ignition: the car would start perfectly once I install brand new $2 spark plugs, it would start perfectly after while it's hot. Once it gets cold it would hesitate to start again. Wiping the sparks helps. I've used an adjustable spark tester and it shows spark above 40000 volts. A compression test was showing 90-120 in all cylinders.

Do I have too much oil in the ignition chamber? Are there any magic spark plugs which would better in these circumstances?

toker2

My '96 used to take 10-15 seconds of cranking the first time I started each morning before it'd finally fire up. Turns out my IAT sensor was covered in black sludge. Wiped it off with a clean. dry rag, screwed it back in (to specified torque) and voila, fires up within the first 2-3 revolutions every time now. Try that. It's on the back of the intake plenum, kind of under the IACV.

uDraft

Just to review, the car will not start after sitting several days. But it will start O.K. after sitting overnight.
Fuel pressure, a small leak. The system needs "primed" cause the small air leak caused the fuel to run back to the tank.