eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

Looks good! Ill never understand why they cut the stock harnesses up for radio installs. Plugs are $5 at walmart.

TomCat39

Alright new problem noticed.

We transfered insurance and plates today and went for a decent drive, put a little gas in her and toodled around town. Taking it easy on the motor and no radio so everything can be heard. I could hear it knocking a touch but onyl at idle when sitting at lights.. And just now when I was timing it, making sure ignition timing was on (was a bit retarded probably to pass air care), in the idle you can hear the usual sewing machine sound of the classic old honda over head cam engine but also in time with that you could lightly here what sounds like a car diesel engine. Can't pick up the sound when you rev it. The motor quickly drowns it out so I think it's still a light knock.

I also have seen just how hearty honda motors are where it took over 7 minutes to kill a knocking motor without oil. They drained the oil, redlined it and it took 7 minutes to seize.

My question is if you can't hear that knock over the motor except at idle and even then it's almost an undertone, do you think there is a solid six month to a year of driving casually before it's detrimental?

My wife doesn't drive hard and I'm teaching her to accelerate a bit more mellow with this one just to prolong it so I have time to put together my old D15B7 to go into it.

Wanting a general opinion of how much time I have. The knock is there but not very loud yet at all.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

it might not even be a knock. when you changed the oil, did you notice any glitter in the oil? do you have access to a mechanic's stethoscope? if it is a knock, it could run as is for a week, or 10 years. you'll likely have warning before it spits a rod. i just bought a 95 ex with a SUPER loud knock, the previous owner had been dailying it as is for 2 months. ill post pics when i get the motor out, im sure he ruined the crank.

TomCat39

Haven't changed the oil, the oil is really light so looks like it was done just before I bought the car. Also didn't notice the nock when I bought it nor when it was cold, seems to get a bit more pronounced once warm. And sounds WAY more like a diesel engine when the igniton timing is fully advanced on the dizzy.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a mech steth, might see how much they run. Might pay for an oil analysis for when I drain the oil, see if the copper content is high.

Since it's not a loud knock like what you just bought, I think I have time. Thanks for the quick reply man. Quite helpful and lets me feel a bit more secure in letting my wife daily it to and from work for now.

Now to figure out why her cavalier suddenly started dying. The old cars sure don't give one much time to rest.

On a side note.... I was reading about crank bearings and I thought I read you don't push them into the rods in the middle. I stopped and thought about it and I could see how they could go out of round or change the curvature of the bearing if you stuck your thumb in the middle of the bearing and pushed down to seat it.

So.... If you are not supposed to shove the bearing down in the middle, how is the proper way to install the bearing into the rod, and again into the cap?

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

you shouldnt need to pay for a diagnostic on the oil, pour it thru a clean white cloth, like cheesecloth or even a paper towel. if you see shimmer, youve got problems. check this out might not be conclusive on a minor knock, but in my experience, d's either knock or they dont.

TomCat39

If that was the sound of the rod knock in the very beginning of the video, that was horrendous!! My car isn't even close to that, it's super subtle so far and I know all it will do is get progressively worse over time.

Here's a curveball question, what if it's not a rod but worn main bearing(s).. How would the sound differ and how pronounced or loud does it get when it gets real bad?

I figure it's almost always rods that go first but what if......

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

honestly, i have never seen a main let go. the sound of the car in that video is roughly what my z6 sounds like. drain your oil, and pull the oil pan off, start from there. then one by one push/pull on each rod cap, check for play. if there is, theres your problem.

JoeBlue

You realize it may just be the piston noise or the rods wiggling in the pistons. Especially if it's a higher mileage engine. Rod bearings do not gradually go bad, they just spin and are bad. I've heard some noisy wrist pins before...

I've got some ridiculous valve noise here that could be thought of as a spun bearing. In fact the guy I bought it from told me that it had a spun bearing and some burnt valves. One oil change and some TLC with fluids and a flush and it stopped making all except the valve noise(Need to adjust my lash again, waiting on a cam seal and gasket). Not saying that you are neglecting your engine, just saying that you shouldn't assume the worst until you confirm it.

TomCat39

I had some thoughts like this. I'm not sure it's bottom end. And it needs to be driven daily so trying to figure out how much time I may have while I piece together my old D15B7 to put the car back to stock.

After that, I can rip into the jdm motor all I want and my wife will have a dependable Daily Driver.

Addendum: When I went to adjust the throttle cable once the car got fully warmed up the VW TDI diesel sound returned. Not there when cold only fully warm. I grabbed my oversized snap on flat tip screw driver and started poking around the front side of the engine. The sound was most prominent through the screwdriver on the #1 side of the motor. Could only listen to #4 and #1 without getting too close to the exhaust manifold. Seems the loudest at the base of the head on #1. Could be heard in the block a bit lower down but not as significantly. Also it's not heard when cold. The Diesel clacking doesn't come about until the engine warms up. Kind of weird it's not until everything expands to maximum.

Going to do a valve lash adjustment to see if that helps, it's the only part that I know of that is typically tightest when cold and loosest when warm. Just not sure if head chatter can sound like a diesel engine.

If it's piston slap, well I'm crossing my fingers it's just worn cylinders in such a way that it will hold out till I can swap motors if the engine is babied. Crossing my fingers it's not wrist pin related. Not sure how it could be with the symptom it only occurs when fully warmed up.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

piston slap quiets down warm. could be valves, hard to say without hearing it. i had an old cb7 accord a while back that sounded like a typewriter from valve noise

TomCat39

After I got done doing the throttle control cable adjustment tonight, I started up the car and recorded it for 5 minutes. Took about 3 minutes to come back up to temp after it had sat for about 50 minutes or so.

The first couple of minutes you hear the normal tappet sounds for the valves and that rapping sound in the video has more of a scraping quality to it in person while in the video it sounds more like a solid rapping/knocking. That sound in the video isn't represented well for the sound you hear in person and is a fair amount louder in video than in person. A bit more peircing in the video then when you sit in the quiet parking garage listening to the motor. The diesel sound is clear though around 4 and a half minutes and the normal valve tick throughout the whole video. Now the VW TDI diesel sound does finally come around once temp is hit and the idle drops and is around 3 and a half minutes when it first starts being audible and like I said is quite noticeable at 4:30 minutes.

Also of note, I didn't paint the exhaust or the valve cover, I bought it that way. There is a lot of ricer things I've slowly been undoing since buying it.

Anyways, please have a listen and let me know what you think about the diesel sound that isn't there until it warms up and drops the idle down.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

your valves sound angry. adjust/change oil since you said you werent sure what was in there.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

the clacking while warm could be explained by a couple things. 1-warmer oil is thinner oil. 2- thermal expansion. everything expands, slightly, when hot. increased clearances can mean more noise.

PrettyMuchBoned

Isn't there some sorta trick:

slightly rev the engine, little by little.

if the sound gets faster with the revs its: a. Top b. Bottom,,,... Forgot where I read/heard this so I dont remember how it goes either

forgot where I read that but when I did it seemed pretty convincing

TomCat39

I understand specific spark plugs are for different heat ranges. I can't say I am fully experienced with all the theory behind this part so I must ask.

Can using a different plug than what is recommended make the engine run cooler?

A little background as to where the question comes from. I understand valve lash specs being too loose can cause an engine to run cooler. I guess more heat transfers through the valve seat due to the closed longer than usual condition. When I was going through the valve lash adjustments, only a small handful of the 16 valves were loose beyond spec and only just.

Also, when I pulled the plugs, they put in the tiny tipped titanium plugs with the same beginning part number as the D15B7 but still the wrong plug. D15B7 doesn't use the titaniums, it uses the v-power plugs. The color was a reddish tan not the light sand tan I'm used to. Indicates that the engine is running cooler than it should.

Would these incorrect plugs also contribute to extra heat dissipation helping to cause the running cooler than spec?

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Doesn't really matter, I put the ZRF5F-11 v-power plugs in and did a pretty lengthy valve lash adjustment. I errored on the side of caution. Intake spec is .007-.009 and exhaust spec is .009-.011. So I made sure there was drag for .008 on the intake and .010 on the exhaust. That way if my novice hands had extra drag it would be closer to the tight spec and if it was too soft of a drag it would be closer to the looser spec. Either way they all should be within spec. And now the locknuts are torqued to 10-11 ft-lbs. Some of those buggers were way too tight to be torqued to spec.

After all of that, engine is still running cool and once warm still has a bit of a VW diesel undertone to it. All of that coupled with lower spark tube seals leaking (except the figure 8 one, go figure) and the other oddball sounds I hear from the car. I think I'm going to just let my wife drive it until it blows up while I put my time and effort into rebuilding my first motor, my old d15b7 that was still in decent shape.

The amount of carbon I saw on top of the pistons was rather demoralizing. This d15b carb engine has definitely been abused and has seen better days.

I do think I will pick up an OEM thermostat and see if that helps the cool running issue. It's still hitting the 500-800 degree self cleaning heat range for the spark plugs but it's on the bottom side of that heat range.

If I'm lucky, I'll get the money, tools and parts together to rebuild the b7 before this engine self destructs and I can play with it for a Y8 mini-me setup.

Side thought, can the timing belt tensioner chortle if it's getting worn? The timing belt looked decent enough for the time being but whose to say if the tensioner/idler bearing has ever been swapped.

TomCat39

Is there a way to identify what crank pulley is on the motor?

I ignitioned timed it to the middle of the three marks on the pulley but it just occurred to me, if it's the original carb pulley that would probably be the 18 degrees not 16. But if they swapped the pulley when doing the engine, it would be the proper 16 degrees.

Is there a way to tell visually or do you need a B7 pulley on hand to compare with?