johnjw

car; 96 Civic coupe. done 2 races (14hrs total) in the rain and it turns out our car is horrible.

Issue #1 FOGGING
We do not have the factory hvac system but retain the dash. We have been using the towel on a stick, but wiping twice a lap slows you down considerably. We've tried the rain-x anti fog wipes with NO results. Somebody mentioned barbasol? Our next race is 3 weeks away. Probably try some sort of fan setup.

Issue #2 Alignment
Tires- Star Spec II. Currently running 1.75 -camber all the way around. Down from 2.25 previously. Spring rates are in the 450# range with zero toe. This sucks. We probably have the least amount of grip out of anybody. Dry is awesome, wet is survival. I know some of the strut type cars are running 3.5 degrees with awesome results, I know this is not for us. I think springs rates need to drop considerably.

TPB

I found applying some dish detergent to a terry cloth and applying to the inside of the windshield remedies fogging (on glass). Just apply a small amount and coat the windshield with an extremely thin layer that should dry very quickly.

As for alignment in the rain, can't really help you as I run the same alignment dry/wet with substantially higher spring rates. Can you be more specific describing how your car handles in the wet?

johnjw

it feels for lack of a better term "pucky". When it breaks away it goes, frt/rr balance is good and drivable/predictable but if feels like we have 30% of our tire making contact (too much camber) The reason I lean towards lower spring rates is the effective camber gain throughout the travel AND going with less static camber.

ScottBell

iTrader: (1)

Disconnect the rear sway bar. Set the shocks to full soft. Put a heater core and fan back in the car. Fan can come in and out easy. Leave the heater core and box, it can't be more than 5lb

Gustav129

Is this your Chump Car or are you club racing too?

Bryan (owner of Cone Damage) is the only one that stays out during practice/qualifying in the rain for club races. He says: "Why waste seat time?"

By the thread, I'm assuming you're going to Portland next month?

johnjw

yeah, this is our chumpcar, signed up for portland.

Came in second at the Pacific Roll-x last weekend with rain on Sunday. Our car was way off pace. When seeing out the windshield is hard/ pace drops off.

Btw we are not running a rr sway bar. Did not come with one to begin with and adding one would increase our value. I don't care to run one as we have some newer to fwd guys racing the car. I like the predictable push

Just looking for spring rates/ camber alignment for rain. Maybe we need to run softer spring and leave the camber alone?

johnjw

I think we're going to try the bilge pump style blower with some other additives to the windshield. I don't care what happens on the outside, its keeping the inside fog under control.

Another team runs no blower or heater, they clay bar the inside of the windshield and apply rain-x anti fog, which almost what we use minus the clay...

Gustav129

We have a heater, but you also know we have an open top car.

I was just talking to Bryan this morning about flagging Portland. I did last year and it was fun, somewhat. I was going to do it again this year for "ChumpChange". But the cost of me going over there would be the same/or just a little higher than the savings Cone damage would get.

Xian

Couple thoughts on the windshield. I've heard of folks using the dish detergent and it does work "ok" but must be put on when everything is dry. i.e. get it done before the race weekend. I've seen decent results with Rain-X Anti-fog but always used the liquid vs. the wipes. What absolutely does work is adding an internal windshield wiper. You have to add wiring and whatnot but the extra wiper will absolutely fix the problem.

As far as car setup... yeah, I'm surprised that you're struggling with a loose car. Do you have some used up bushings in the rear that are letting things move around or are introducing dynamic toe changes? Bit of a WAG but maybe lower the rear so it has more camber and grip? IMO, 1.7* is significantly less than I'd want with those rates. You're pretty dang soft on springs already and should be getting a good amount of roll. How short are your front/rear bumpstops? Any chance that you're bottoming out the rear in the rain and it's getting away from you?

johnjw

bushings is a concern. we have to stay oem for now and they look to be in ok shape, no tearing or rotting, sleeves have not moved/shifted. sounds like we are removing front sway bar (also to help with open diff) and re-checking alignment.

I think the biggest improvement will come from actually being able to see, making for smoother imputs. Had not seen the liquid version of the anti fog. Right now it seems as though the claybar with anti fog and a bilge blower is the way for us for now. if this doesn't kill it the a/c is going back in lol jk

Mostly everybodys gripe was with lift oversteer and how quick it happens for us. We are running Koni's with adjustable re-bound and have the rears up to help with this. Maybe this is incorrect way to help with setup with what we have, not sure. Still think we need softer springs/ more travel.

Xian

Removing the front bar typically gives you better front grip at the expense of additional roll. If the car is already loose, I don't think additional front grip is going to be what you want.

To me, the obvious alignment things to tame the rear are to add a touch of toe-in (1/16th total) or lower the rear for additional camber.

If lift throttle oversteer is the perceived problem, soften the rear shocks so that the weight comes off them more slowly.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Keep in mind driving in the rain is always going to be a challenge.
Finding a dryer driving line is key to quicker lap times.
There was a thread a while back where Matt Bell shows just how difficult it is to drive in the wet.
You have to change the driving line to stay out of the pooled water.

Billy Elliot

I would suggest adding back in the heater core. As an added bonus, putting the heat on full blast can help cool the car a small bit as well because you are removing more heat from the car through another radiator. I've run the liquid FogX on my windshield and it worked well. The only issue is when the sun comes out, the oily film it leaves can give a slight haze and can be distracting. It gets even worse if you then get water on the inside of the windshield and try to wipe it, it will become a nasty/oily/smeary mess.

As far as your setup, not sure why you are struggling either. For my tarmac rally setup, I run the same Rain/Dry with the only change being tires. I run RA1 in the dry and RE-11 in the wet. Your star specs have shown in a GRM article better wet grip than the RE-11 so it's at least not your tires. Or are you not running full tread tires? Are you running lower pressures to make up because the wet takes the heat out of the tires quicker?

I run a 570# front and 400# rear spring with 22mm OEM LX Civic front bar and 24mm ASR bar with slight toe-in front/rear for my tarmac setup and didn't have any real problems. Granted, I did clip a tree on my rally but that was more an issue of cold tires and pushing too hard on my part. The first stage I had no problems and set the fastest overall time (beating other guys in turbo AWD cars) and we still got lost on the notes for a few turns!