tsunamiq

Hi,
I have a civic sedan and was wondering what you guys think about building it for the track. Not to concerned about looks or power but mainly about the balance of the car. I would think that because the vehicle is a bit heavier than than the hatches it would have a bit more traction with the right suspension and what not? so back to my original question. If power is not an issue (would immediate swap out engine) than would the over all body or chassis hold up on the track? is over all appearance of the vehicle the reason that sways people from building it.
thanks

Johnny

TunerN00b

I've bolded the error. Heaver = less traction. That's just how tires work. They do gain traction as load is increased, but not as fast as the additional load forces them to work harder to do the same thing.

Overall, there is nothing wrong with a sedan for racing, just different than what is typically seen.

tsunamiq

ahhh I didn't account for the momentum of the vehicle. sigh. p=mv. makes sense. increase mass and velocity = greater p, which then would require larger wheels with higher level of friction to keep the car from sliding . but tires only get so big and would need, im guessing, higher grade wheels, which probably cost more than you're normal street tires. but then we would have to factor in the wheel size of the tire to performance. wow. this is all harder than i thought. thanks for the insight. Ill keep looking around for the perfect formula for my civic.

Compared to the hatches, the 4 dr, the average weight differences is give or take 200 lbs. So pulling out the ac and stripping the car down would, would possiblily bring it down to an unharassed hatch? i dont want to build a loser. haha would appreciate some more input

thanks

TunerN00b

Most classes of racing specify a race weight. People use ballast to get the car heavy enough to compete.

Don't overthink the weight thing. I was only trying to point out where you went wrong.

Given 2 Civics, 1 a hatch and 1 a sedan, both with the same engine and race weight, both restricted to the same sized tires and brakes, I'll take which ever has better aero.

What are you trying to do with the car anyway? If its just an HPDE car, go drive and ignore the "which car would be better" concern. If you have an intended class you wish to race in, you'll need to know all the rules to make any form of decision.

import2nr88

If you all ready own it, then build it. If you don't, then just buy what you like.

Stinkycheezmonky

That's all you really need to know. There have been a handful of sedan Honda Challenge cars (Meris? Hartanto?) that have been successfully raced. Bernardo also campaigned (briefly ) an Integra sedan, also with great success.

tronic

Sedans are stiffer.
I don't think that's going to overcome 200lbs, or be as much of an issue with a cage added, but that's what I tell myself and my beloved GSR sedan..

tsunamiq

awesome insight guys. thank you for all of your input.

vansprinkle

FWIW, Evo's and STI's are sedans and used as race cars!

Lo-Buck EF

blue civic 4 door in h1

4 door integra that won H1 in 2007

tl that was movin well at nat'ls last year

azian21485

The longer wheelbase of a 4dr will also help the car brake and accelerate better

Stinkycheezmonky

Come on, the guy's a noob

Lo-Buck EF

hey, i was nice!

Stinkycheezmonky

I was talking to azian, you even went so far as to post pics

rkcarguy

Check the weights, some of the years the 4dr was lighter than the hatchback Si model. I personally think the 4dr has better aero than a hatch and would run it down on the straights, but a CRX would be better than both. I've driven a 4dr daily for years and I like the way they handle better, I think the weight further back helps the rear end "rotate" in the corners a little easier for better turning.

RandomFocus

the sedan's longer wheelbase will have more high speed cornering stability, and like some have said the sedan style chassis is stiffer then the blank rear hole of a hatch back. it comes down to what your into. Id rock the sedan

rotten

And be harder to rotate/turn.

slammed_93_hatch

in the slow speed stuff, but more stable in the highspeed turns...


everything has its give and takes.

rkcarguy

That long *** gets a little more pendulum affect in turns IMO, several of the locals who have had HB's, coupes, and 4dr's all prefered the 4dr handling, many can't even tell you why or explain, but just felt they handle better.

Stinkycheezmonky

The longer wheelbase will be more stable in turns, which could also be translated as more difficult to rotate. That pays off in high-speed turns, but is frustrating on the lower speed stuff. Like Jimmy said, give and take.

vtecjj

Here are pics of my 4dr. Civic that finished 2nd in H1 at the 2008 Nationals:








FYI, ALL (coupe, 4dr., AND hatchback) '96-'00 Civics have the SAME WHEELBASE



Listen to this guy

RandomFocus

^thanks for the clarification, sam3e goes with the focus chassis, 2 door hatch, 4 door hatch, and sedan have the same wheelbase despite they dont seem to from a glance. well then i guess since the wheelbases are the same, that part of the debate is put to rest, but the fact that the sedan body most likely still has a stiffer chassis by design, id say YES its still worth building

Andy@AMR

I say go for it. In the Philippines we have a lot of people that race with that chassis. Yes it is more common here, but we also have a lot of other chassis to work with as well. I've worked with and seen some sick 00 Civic sedans here. Do it, it'll be fun.