g@msn2000

Yesterday after an oil change at my local Honda dealer, the service rep informed me that they could not put a washer on the plug because the threads were stripped. They just tightened down the plug and told me that it would likely not leak but would need replacement soon. The cost would be $600 for parts and labor! Honda made the plug out of steel and the pan out of aluminum and heli coil fixes are supposedly just temporary and they risk metal pieces getting into the engine. For previous cars I changed the oil myself to avoid anyone messing things up, but for the S2000 I have taken it to Honda. My S200 is a 2001 that I bought used with 9K miles and had been serviced by a Honda dealer prior to my purchase; records provided by original owner.

Please advise. Is there any good, safe fix that is not so crazy expensive? A steel plug and an aluminum pan...won't this just happen again? Somewhere along the line in servicing someone could have over tightened it and ...bingo ...big expense. What is Honda thinking with this kind of design? I know that my local Honda dealer will gladly take $600 for a fix, but my confidence in them is greatly diminished.

Any advice is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg

S2KILLA

**** that noise... just buy another oil pan... less money and you can do it yourself... and if honda stripped the threads then make them pay for it...

camoy

Agree with S2KILLA if you have always brought it back to the dealer and it is the same one you have always used, then they should be the ones to pay for the replacement of the pan. As they should and you should have record of it not being a problem last time.

If they are not willing to pay, again S2KILLA is right used pans are cheap on S2KI and they are very easy to swap out since the car is RWD there isn't a crossmember or exhaust pipe running over the middle of the pan.

As for it not happening again, don't bring it back to that stealership. Obviously they just wrench the bolt on thinking it is like a civic with a steel pan. So that means if you have them do a rear diff fluid swap they will simply pump in the stuff from the 55 gal barrel that they put in CRVs. Then you can drive down the road and watch your Diff go boom, then they will tell you it was normal wear and tear and charge you 1.5k for a replacement.

S2KILLA

seriously... thats the biggest bunch of bullshit... its like saying well we poured sugar in your gas tank and your engine doesnt work anymore so its gonna cost you 4K for a new engine...

if you do have to replace it yourself majestic honda sells them for $193 new... you can def get one from s2ki or a junk yard for half that price...

but the point still remains that they def ****ed up the threads... how many oil changes have they done on the car??? you still have receipts for this??? i would bitch out there service manager if they dont fix it and then sue them... its like $30 to file and im sure theyll be a little more inclined to fix it...

g@msn2000

Thanks for the advice. I've had many oil changes done there since I tend to get the oil changed at 3000K. They claim that the tech uses a torque wrentch set to specs, I think 40 or 50 lbs.

They also told me that $400 of the $600 was for labor since the process was complicated, time consuming and required "taking lots of stuff off" ... they are working hard to loose me as a customer. I once looked at purchasing a vehicle from them and the documentation fee alone was enough to make me start looking for the door.

I have some blocks, but don't think I can get the front high enough to change the pan. It sounds like they may have been overdoing the complicated to change description.

Thanks much to for feedback, much appreciated.

g@msn2000

Yes, I've saved all receipts. Will start looking for a good facility for service, one that won't mess up my car.

camoy

You don't need to lift the car that high the pan is pretty shallow. The only thing you should need to remove is the lower brace it is three bolts on each side and then it comes off. Then you need to take out all the bolts that hold the pan on, there is a pry point/tab on the pan that you use to break the honda bond seal. Don't just go sticking a screwdriver in between the motor and pan that will dork up the sealing surfaces. Clean of the old honda bond apply new bead of honda bond to new/new used pan (make sure to make circles of honda bond around bolt holes) re-install pan using the tighten sequence in the sevice manual and torque to specs. It is pretty easy and very straight foward.

PM me if you need the torque specs and tightening order.

Here is a picture of what it kind of looks like, ignore the stuff with red Xs as they are aftermarket.

S2KILLA

good write up... but use that as a last resort...

def call them up and be like your fixing this ****... and see how that goes... post up what happens...

g@msn2000

camoy - thanks much for the information, doesn't sound nearly as complicated as described. I have some drive up blocks that will hopefully get it high enough.

S2KILLA - thanks, I have called and asked to speak with the general manger and am hoping to speak with him soon. My impression of this dealership has definately gone negative.

90Rexx

They arent going to pay for a new pan for you.... unfortunately being the pan is aluminum, this issue is considered "wear and tear". better start finding a used pan..

HatchVX

I work at a dealer, i would say they are way over charging you, if we have a aluminum pan strip out we use a time sert ( way better than a heli coil) the most it would be is an 1.0 labor and whatever the timesert cost.

S2KILLA

ok granted it may be wear and tear, but so is the clutch... so what your telling me is that i bring in my car, some newbie tech takes my car out for a test drive and wears the **** out of the clutch and now i stuck with the bill... my first phone call would be to my lawyer and the second would be the 911 cuz id murder the noob...

it doesnt matter if its a wear and tear item... it was in good working condition before he brought it in, and they are the only ones that do his oil... furthermore they were the ones to spot it... i wonder why... cuz some jerkoff was trying to do a quick job turned the plug on a slight angle and started tightening even though it was hard as **** to do so... now you have a crossthreaded oil pan...

sextav6

Agreed. I would be steaming about now.

For future reference tho, a set of ramps from walmart costs about $50 and a plastic used oil pan costs about $10. Just sayin

JDogg

goto advance auto/autozone/etc and get an oversize drain plug.. problem solved

B serious

iTrader: (1)

At that point, the pan is off for the drilling/tapping. Might as well just do a new pan. Less complex.

If the dealer is considering it a wear and tear item, they really shouldnt be responsible. After a certain amount of cycles, if a pan seat wears from normal torquing...its not their fault.

However...the op said that the dealer told him the plug itself had damaged threads that wouldn't aaccept a washer? Sounds crazy. Unless there was some miscommunication somewhere...I don't know how you strip threads on a steel bolt using a cast aluminum pan.

And...if the threads are somehow stripped...how did they tighten it into the pan? The story makes no sense.

What do stripped threads have to do with a washer not fitting? Stripped threads make the bolt diamter smaller...not larger.

U sure u got the story correct, op?

mojo_jojo77777

Op, I work at a Honda dealership. And those bolts are not to be tightened to anywhere near 40-50 ft lbs. If you have brought your car to the dealership for your oil changes, and have documentation of all past oil changes, they will HAVE to replace that pan for you. Idiots in this thread do not know what they are talking about since they probably dont even work at a dealership. The oil pan is not a wear and tear item. Oil pans are made to last the life of the motor. What happened is just some idiot overtightened the bolt and stripped the threads. Simple as that. Threaten to go past the general manager and go to the owner of the dealership. Tell them that you will get the situation resolved. But the key is to be commanding and not let them make you feel inferior. Because if they make you think they cant do anything about it, they win. You really think they want to fix their $500 mistake? Of course not. So they will say whatever they can to fix it. You cant walk in scared to talk. If I were you, I'd walk in there, pissed as hell, start shouting, threaten to leave them a bad survey/report (dealerships run off of CSI reports) and they will change out that oil pan for you. Dont let the dealership give you the run around. I work there, and I know how it works

camoy

+1 The pan is not a wear and tear item, if so then the transmission case and diff case must wear and tear items too as they are also cast aluminum in which a steel plug is used.

OP do the above and then start doing your own oil changes or find another dealership.

S2KILLA

^^^ thanks mojo and camoy... at least someone else has a brain inside this forum...

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Lol...I wasn't implying that it is a wear and tear item. I said IF it was a wear and tear item, it wouldn't be their fault....just to offer a different perspective on a general statement.

I did notice that 40-50 lbs is a bit high for a torque setting. I know that pans aren't meant to fail at a certain interval.

I get it.

but...the op's explanation of what happened still makes no sense. So maybe there was some mis-communication somewhere? If they truly did tell you that a steel bolt was stripped by an aluminum pan and that the threads GREW in diameter....I'd ask them the name of their wizard...and then demand that he or someone else fix my ****...cuz that's impossible.

If they're the only ones who ever touched the car and since the pan is not a wear item, they should pay for the damages.

CHONCH2

+2!!!

i had a friend that was a service writer for our local dealership here, and they would get GRILLED when people would call honda corporate or whatever it is and inform them of dealerships trying to pull **** like this. call them and get pissed!

g@msn2000

Thanks much to all who have responded.

Yesterday I talked to the General Manager who sounded reasonable and sincerely interested and stated that I should not be having that kind of problem. Am waiting for a call back. Hope it wasn't PR fluff...it’s been almost 24 hours. Will contact dealership owner next if need be and be very direct about my displeasure regarding this situation.

As I understand it, the threads on the pan are stripped. Sorry if I failed to communicate that. They made it sound like a design flaw (naturally); like a steel plug is pretty likely to mess up an aluminum pan; just give it time; please don‘t notice that we are dancing around the issue. Well it is IF it is put back on carelessly or with ignorance. Given proper care I don’t see this happening.

Again, thanks to all for your input...will keep you posted.

S2KILLA

sounsd good OP... let us know...

Del Namco Solo

My buddy bought a s2k from carmax and it came with the drain plug threads already stripped. he tried an oversized plug and it cracked the pan. the new pan was 240 overnight snipping (hence the higher price then what others stated).

there is only ONE part REQUIRED to be taken off when changing out the oil pan, and its the sub frame brace right below the pan in the front. after that, its all oil pan bolts. we did it in less then 30 minutes with a new gasket (thanks to honda liquid gasket :D) and the pan doesn't leak at all. 400 bucks for labor is redonkulous, especially since the hourly rate is about 90 bucks, and it takes 30 minutes to do, that should be 45 bucks, so if the pan is 200, tell them 245. even then, i would just do it myself, a little time and patience goes a long way. doing it on the ground with hand tools might take longer, but ****, honda, being a shop, with power tools (and/or air tools) could do it fast as ****. they just want your money.

s2ki actually has a forums post about why NOT to take the car to the dealer to get **** done. the best hands to work on the car is your own, unless you have no clue what your doing (even then there are books and forums for help).

sue um for sure. I would.

Rtzx9r

Curious - if the dealer stripped the plug, let you take the car, and the plug "fell out" during driving, who pays for the engine? Clearly the dealers fault, but how much leverage would you have?

mojo_jojo77777

^ it would fall back to the dealership. as long as you have it recorded that the last oil change was done but them, the dealership will be forced to take full responsibility.