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Old 02-23-2004, 07:09 AM   #1
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Default The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head

<FONT SIZE="10">IT RUNS!!</FONT>
+ BOOSTED NOW!

Welcome to the begining of the G series Revolution

<FONT COLOR="red">IMPORTANT UPDATE:</FONT> concerning head gasket http://www.honda-tech.com/zero...71513

yes thats right SOHC block + DOCH VTEC HEAD so many people say it can't be done, well so far its working for me
Also alot of information pertaining to the h23a1 head on the F blocks as well as alot of info on the 97mm stroke f23 block.
check into the h23/f23 hybrid thread here by the pirate
check into the h22/f23 hybrid thread here by samIam

Status: Runing Strong for 6k miles, no leaks or problems, reving to 7k to 7200 depending. so far i have run the motor on 87, 91, and 93 octain, works fine. NOW BOOSTED 9-10 psi out and about after the winter of 2004-2005. UPDATE: been boosting for a good 5k miles i would say, i lost track. I think so far that must put the total on the motor somewhere around 10k. But the motor has held together fine and exceeded my expectations. Im really trying to make it to the track before i put the car away for the 2005-2006 winter. If the rain ever stops up here i will do my best. UPDATE: passed emmisons check here for detail

Requests:
1. please post any information you would like to add, post any questions, just try reading the thread first. I know its messy and i can't spell for ****, but read it, and then ask away.
2. let me know if your attempting the H + F idea, i would love to see if others are trying it. and if you do get it working, give me a little credit, and don't claim to be "The One and Only"

Thanks on 12-10-2005
I just did a quick search on google for my honda-tech name , and its interesting to see that almost 300 websites come up with it, alot having to do with the mentioning of this thread in alot of other forums. I'm really pleased that people are actually giving credit and pointing people to the origin of this whole thing. I'd just like to extend a thank you to everyone who had supported this project and given it a try or even passed it along to someone else. It had really gone alot further than I thought and opened up alot of doors. Thanks everyone.

Who says cost isn't worth it?
For the poeple who say its way to much work and costs the same as a whole h22.
i own a vtec lude so i took what i had and used the below:

motor from junkyard - 150 dollars
deck 35 thousanths off of the block 50 dollars
headgasket, hondabond, clay, orings. 50 dollars
grand total cost to ME: 250 dollars.

do you know how many times i read in the archives "the costs of getting it done would reach far beyond that of the cost for a h22 swap" HA! you have to be kidding me. now obviously if you didn't already have an h22 head then yes you have to pay for that, and the timing belt and timing equipment. but everyone likes to bash and say its not worth the money. well suck it, it cost me 250 dollars total. yes doing this swap took me a long time, there is absolutly no information on the internet about this. and i have not known of anyone else that i could possibly try for information. so it took some time for me, but now for others, the information is avialable, and the options outlined.

Reasoning:
up until this point, every person that has asked if you could put an h head on an F block has been met with unending NO's and flaming from all angles. even a friend of mine who dropped the idea on a supposed "reputable" import salavage company told him he was crazy and it woulnd't work. It makes me wonder what made these people so SURE that the H head can't go on a F block. One dude decides it can't be done because they are different letters and then starts spreding misinformation, and the next thing you know everyone thinks it can't be done, but how many of those people actually took a H head and tryed to drop it on an F block? Its unreal the amount of people in the archives that said it can't be done. so the reason i did it, because people said it couldn't be done.

note: all pics of the build are still avalible by hyperlink, only a caouple come up right as you load this thread though.

Now as it was from the begining:

my winter project (2003-2004) has been putting an h22a1 head on a f22b2 accord block i got from the junkyard. i wanted something that i can boost the **** out of and not car if it blows, and f22 blocks are a dime a dozen.

as it stands everything lines up except 2 oil drain passages that i have already made simple plugs out of bolts you can buy at the hardware store, had the block decked to bring my compresion to a 9:1 with the 53.8cc h22a1 head (i could have milled the head, but i wanted to leave my head unmotified.)

at one point i was cosidering boring the 85 out to 86 becasue thats what the helms says the limit is, and then i wouldn't have had to deel with deck or anything, i mean the bottom end i got had 60k miles on it, so the goal of the project was a simple low compression low budget build for a turbo to be thrown on,

people could yank the pistons out and then put other pistons in and then the wouln't have to have the block decked or head milled, i just didn't want to touch the internals, and having the block decked cost me 50 bucks, much less than time and effor to change pistons , and or bore, i mean the bottom end has 60k no need to touch it.

there is alot of info in this thread for putting h heads on F blocks. everything from my h22a1 head on the f22b2 to using the h23 head for a more simple setup, or even some people thinking about using a f23 block and a h22 head. if you guys like what i have done or have comments please post thanks.


Modified by prelittlelude at 2:47 PM 7/27/2006
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 03:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head (prelittlelude)

hmm i thought more people would be more interested in this.. oh well, does anyone know where i can get free image hosting?, i guess ill just keep posting up info for anyone else that wants to do it.
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 03:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head (prelittlelude)

Actually this seams pretty cool. But have you looked into having somewhere for the oil to go for vtec? Basically what I am asking is, is there a hole for the oil to pass into the head like the h22 and h23? If not you'll have to tap into the block and head.

The bestplaces I have seen this for is th eoil press sensor and there is a little allen key bolt in the head right aft of the vtec solinoid
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Old 02-23-2004, 03:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head (95 lude)

yes there is vtec oil feed, all the f blocks have the oil passage needed for vtec as far as i know, because of the SOCH vtec heads that are on the accords share the same block as the for the f22s
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 03:59 PM   #5
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Wow, this is interesting. Please keep us updated. Always cool to see people try new things Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:18 PM   #6
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please keep us posted man. im extremely interested

ill help you with pics if you need?
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:30 PM   #7
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So what's the difference w/ the H22 and F22 block? I thought the F22 had the same crank as the H23, but a smaller bore to put it at 2.2l.

Nice idea, good luck on the build! Keep us updated!
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: (LudeyKrus)

That's for the JDM F22B right? The JDM F22B is basically an H23 with an 85 mm bore. Is this different?
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:40 PM   #9
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nice goin Tom, image hosting at photobucket.com
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: (biglew)

nope, this is with a f22b2 block out of an 1996 accord i found in the junkyard, i got a nasty good deal on it, with on 60k miles on it.

my AEBS head studs came today which is nice, now im just waiting for the head gasket and time to re assemble.

the f22 has the same crank and rods as the h23, just a smaller bore of 85, the cyclinders are also cast iron. if all goes well i wouldn't see any reason why you couldn't over bore to 86mm, or even just change the pistons to reach you desired compresion ratio. i went with the 50 dollar route to get me to 9:1 , because i didn't want to mess with the bottom end,
i guess also you could put h22 crank and rods in a f22 block, and run your choice of forged pistons and put the h22 head on...

this is all speculation of course, but i have clayed and assembled/disassembled the motor to be several times, so this isn't just theory, its fact, ive been playing with it for a month or 2 now,
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:46 PM   #11
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I know you have to overbore the head if you overbore the pistons, but can you run a head at a bigger bore than the block?
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Old 02-23-2004, 04:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: (LudeyKrus)

joel knew someone that was running a h22a1 head on a f20b, and he said he had no problems. i mean im not sure if its going to make hot spots, or if it will effect engine life, but i guess im going to find out. and belive it or not the size difference is not that major. from my mesurements it seems as if the h22 head isn''t even at 87, maybe 86 or 86.5,

what i plan on doing is running a f23 head gaskit, it is at 86mm, so i will meat half way inbetween the h22 head size and the f22 bore,

here is a block shot of the h23 vs f22

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.


Modified by prelittlelude at 12:26 PM 2/25/2004
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 05:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: (prelittlelude)

why bother. horrible stroke ratio and you'l make less power then an h22. to put all that work and money when you can buy an h22 for less that puts out more power.............stupid idea but if you want it go for it
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Old 02-23-2004, 05:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: (H23vtecEG)

so this is the SOHC VTEC block right? I think it's still true that the SOHC non-VTEC blocks don't bolt up.
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Old 02-23-2004, 06:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: (satan_srv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by satan_srv
so this is the SOHC VTEC block right? I think it's still true that the SOHC non-VTEC blocks don't bolt up.
Didnt he say that he has clayed the motor and made sure it works? Just making sure that you di do it to be absolutly positive it will work.

And to h23vtec_eg he is doing it so he can boost it, not to make n/a power. I think its a good idea since its already iron.

Keep us informed
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Old 02-23-2004, 06:19 PM   #16
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Default Re: (H23vtecEG)

Quote:
Originally Posted by H23vtecEG
why bother. horrible stroke ratio and you'l make less power then an h22. to put all that work and money when you can buy an h22 for less that puts out more power.............stupid idea but if you want it go for it

the whole idea of this is to save money...the will not cost more then a h22 swap. you can find assembled f22 short blocks for 50 bux in the right place, and cheap everywhere.

r/s ratio is the same as the h23, not great but not the worst
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who f__kin said "stock" not me..... i used to mod my tennis shoes to match my gixxer!!!
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Old 02-23-2004, 06:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head (prelittlelude)

crazy that your doing this...ive been thinking about doing this for years (2 act). now my h22 block might be screwed, so i was going to give this a shot. at first i was thinking of throwing in some forged pistons/rods since resleeving is not nessary...but now im thinking i am just going to see how much power i can squeeze out of stock block...


300whp on a 50 doller block would be sweet...

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who f__kin said "stock" not me..... i used to mod my tennis shoes to match my gixxer!!!
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Old 02-23-2004, 06:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head (fastludeh22)

so 2 oil drain passeges have to be pluged. this being on the head i assume? is there going to be enough paths for proper flow? got any pics of these spots that need to be plugged.

the f23 is still sohc right. the f23 block looks a lot more like an h series then the f22 does.


if this all works out, its going to be the new hot thing in frankenstine engines...
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who f__kin said "stock" not me..... i used to mod my tennis shoes to match my gixxer!!!
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Old 02-23-2004, 07:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: (satan_srv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by satan_srv
so this is the SOHC VTEC block right? I think it's still true that the SOHC non-VTEC blocks don't bolt up.
nope this was a sohc non vtec, it just has a oil control plug just like the h23 does , the h23 and h22 share the same block, just as the f22 sohc vtec and sohc non-vtec do

Quote:
Originally Posted by H23vtecEG
why bother. horrible stroke ratio and you'l make less power then an h22. to put all that work and money when you can buy an h22 for less that puts out more power.............stupid idea but if you want it go for it
hmmm... 100 dollars for the whole long block, 50 bucks to have the block decked, and 50 for a head gasket. yeah thats almost eqivalent to a full h22

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastludeh22
so 2 oil drain passeges have to be pluged. this being on the head i assume? is there going to be enough paths for proper flow? got any pics of these spots that need to be plugged.

the f23 is still sohc right. the f23 block looks a lot more like an h series then the f22 does.
yeah i have to get the digital camera back from my girl friend, it has all the picks on it as the project progressed, like how i made the plugs, how i installed htem, the shots of the head gasket, and me claying he motor, and water pump motification. i mean as far as oil drain, i think there should be enough room for the oil to drain down. i mean im no expert in fluid dynamics, but im going to guess that the oil will drain faster assisted by gravity than the oil pump can pump up there

, and the f23 is sohc, but you run into a problem now that i think of it. the f23 block utualizes 55mm mains, so unless you got a 98+ h22 crank and put it in there, then there would be no go, unless you wanted a 97mm stroker vtec Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 lude

Didnt he say that he has clayed the motor and made sure it works? Just making sure that you di do it to be absolutly positive it will work.

And to h23vtec_eg he is doing it so he can boost it, not to make n/a power. I think its a good idea since its already iron.

Keep us informed
yeah i clayed once before i had the block decked, and then once after i had it decked. and yes this is not an n/a block, the idea is to boost it hard for cheap, and if it blows the ring landings or drops a rod, ill just hope it doesn't take the head with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastludeh22
i was thinking of throwing in some forged pistons/rods since resleeving is not nessary...but now im thinking i am just going to see how much power i can squeeze out of stock block...
300whp on a 50 doller block would be sweet...
you right with both things, it will except forged pistons and rods, or you can just stak stock and see how much you can squeeze out.. i remeber seeing some sick dyno sheets with a guy running only an fmu i think up to 18psi on a stock sohc. and i will be tuning with a AEM ems, and have not yet decided on a boost level.


Modified by prelittlelude at 11:36 PM 2/23/2004
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 07:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: The cats out of the bag: F22b2 block+H22a1 head (fastludeh22)

Things i expected :
having to plug the oil drains

Things that i didn't expect that almost killed the project:
Water Pump
Water Pipe

Things that i still haven't decided on that i have come to:
head gasket -(well i did decide on a the f23 head gasket, but might not be the best , i don't know yet)
Engine mount (accord vs. prelude)

Things that i added in for safty/security measures:
Aebs Head studs
Honda Bond liquid gasket (for extra sealing around posibble "troublespots")

ill elaborate on all of this tomorrow hopefully, but i got to crash for the nite, class at 7am
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-23-2004, 08:21 PM   #21
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This would be great for the buget builder for N/A also.

1. Buy a f22 block
2. bore it to 86 mm
3.get some high comp pistons and h22a rods and crank.
BLAM!! looks like a cheap way around resleeving to me. A few questions like does the f22 have oil squirters? are the mains the same so the crank will fit. So You have to deck the head? how much? i mean im guessing the block is longer?
anyone know?
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Old 02-23-2004, 08:23 PM   #22
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just wondering, but is the timing belt tensioner hydrollic on the f22? Also does it have balance shafts? HMmmmmmm
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Old 02-24-2004, 03:37 AM   #23
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Default Re: (LudeHatchH22a)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LudeHatchH22a
A few questions like does the f22 have oil squirters? are the mains the same so the crank will fit. So You have to deck the head? how much? i mean im guessing the block is longer?
anyone know?
unfortunatly no the f22 doesn't have oil squirters but i haven't looked into all of the f series yet to see. at one point i was thinking of just drilling and tapping in the appropriate places, but i don't really care about this block that much, we will see maybe i will

yes the crank in the f22 is the same as the h23 crank, and the h22 and h23 both share 50mm crank journals, the f23 is already at 86, and has the 55mm crank journals that the 98+ h22 crank has

as far as decking or milling the head you don't need to. if you were to replace the pistons you could reach any compresion ratio you wanted, i just didn't want to mess with the bottom end or my head, so i just spend 50 bucks and had the block decked to bring my compression ratio up. if you were to put a stock h22 head on a stock f22 bottom end you would end up with a 8.44:1 cr, alittle to low. and the blocks are not any longer than the h series, seeing as how the f22 uses h23 crank and rods it reaches the same deck height

ANd the thing i like is that the f22 uses the same timing belt tensioner as the h23 , manual tensioner Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
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F22B2/H22 DOHC VTEC Hybrid Ha, What's a G series?
You can bolt any H head on any F block (excluding f20c) and vice versa.
Im trying to get back into the community, been real busy
BUY my damn K24 block!
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:17 AM   #24
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Wow you have definatly covered your angles
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:07 AM   #25
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yeah he did, im impressed.
So does the h22a1 have the same crank that would fit? 55mm? So the deck hieght is the same as, oh say a h22a1 block? And do you know if the f22 has balance shafts? This block may be just what the doctor ordered. There could be a way to add the oil squirters off the h22 onto the f22 right? that would be pretty cool to get the block the same specs as the h22a1 minus the FRM, balance shafts, hydrolic tensioner and the need to sleeve.
sounds good to me!!
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