Don Jefe

NirVTEC

Acidcrakker

LOL who ever said or even can prove that these parts fall apart in a few years.

Shoot, I still have my 200 dollar header from megan racing on my H22. Is over 3 years old, and been through 2 motors. LoL

Doesn't matter what you buy, it can break, cheap or expensive, doesn't matter.

The way I see it is, I have 1000 bucks to spend on my Prelude. Do I want a new fancy header, or a knock off header, and nitrous system????

Just my opinion, doesn't mean that you have to agree with it.

However, if I ever spend about 10k on an engine build, than topping it off with a 1000 dollar header is the only time Id get one.

Like most of the people on this forum, Im broke, lol and I want to go fast, 1000 dollar header just isnt a consideration. Im sure I speak for 90 percent of the people on any automotive forum.

hdragster

I'm sure BISI will post up a dyno chart "YOU PEOPLE" just need to chill.

marcus81184

Megan makes good quality, even though people diss on them. I thought my catback was absolutely flawless when I got it. Sometimes I wish I would have done a full exhaust system from them, but oh wells. He clearly is an idiot. I've used a hammer on my "knock off" header, and it won't even bend. Fall apart lolz.

NirVTEC

Support the sweat shops and R&D theft in pursuit of power!

kentucky accord

updates?

Acidcrakker

Why not?

Why should anyone over pay for something.

Im not trying to take or discourage business for anyone, to each their own.

Traction bars for instance. Real brand traction bar for the Prelude is like 400 bucks. I can get a knock off, exact design reweld the welds if need be for under 150 bucks.

They are selling you Horse Power, not the product. If you spend X amount of dollars you get this much horse power. Knock off brands sell you the product, they don't care about the horse power.

The issues is not with the product itself. All mechanical things can fail.

90 percent of the time, someone installs a cheap product on their car, and it fails down the road. The user tries to blame the product, by calling it cheap. The reality of it is, that its user error.

Exhaust systems are pretty simple, you cant really **** that up.

What it is, is that the real manufacturers see that their product is being reproduced, and they start telling other people that its cheap and will break. Which it does happen, but then again it happens with the original merchandise as well.

Because its cheap, and sold on ebay means, that its crap right? No, it just means that its massed produced by cheap labor in Asia where people are happy to make 1 bowl of rice, and a cup of tea for a hard days work. As opposed to being made in America where you have a shop owner who has to pay bills, needs to make some profit on all his work, and what not.

When you do buy a product, either knock off or original know this.

1. If you buy the knock off you are taking away from the original designers progress.
2. If you want to support the original designer you should buy from him.
3. If you don't care about who made what first, than buy the knock off
4. If money is not even an issue, than don't worry about it. Buy from wherever.

A Blue Lude

With quality control enforced by a guy who makes two bowls of rice, planned by people that don't necessarily understand the original item, sold to someone overseas who will have minimal ability to sue them if it's crap, if they even cared...

It's all well and good to argue about headers, ultimately it doesn't matter very much. But I'm blown away that you would feel OK running a no-name traction bar on your car. Do you know what would happen if a radius rod let go while you're moving at a speed that's not zero? These things aren't decorative like they are on a EG/EK or Integra.

I would be deeply hesitant to run one by an American company (who says they engineered it well, the aftermarket is excellent at producing crap), much less a slavish copy produced out of tin cans and welded by a guy apparently earning a bowl of rice a day (Taiwan isn't that poor, though).


edit: I forgot, you were one of those resellers of no-name parts, weren't you....

Acidcrakker

its cool that you have your own response to say.

But anyone who does this knows that its hands on experince that makes or breaks someone. I can pretty much say that someone who sits around welding all day long is not going to be that bad of a welder.

Im not going to go any further with this. I spoke my mind, agree or disagree, Its up to you.

Also just because someone is from another land doesn't make them a total retard. Sweat shopping is legal in some countries. Im sure that if Americans could get with paying workers a few scrapes a day it would be done. You just don't get that here in the states.

I have worked with people from South Africa, South America, Europe and Asia. I contracted them out of their countries to come work in America. They love it here, atleast working for me. Money is good.

Some of them come and tell me these companies they worked for in their countries and I dont believe it really, but the stories. Had this one guy who told me he worked for the Nike Factory in some South American contient, and they didnt pay him jack ****. I wear Nike myself, favorite shoe.

Im not scared of what could or could not happen on the car. First rule when%2

TheLudeMan

flesh199

Still no a dyno chart for these h22 guys?

PinoyShadow

Here is my dyno graph and experience with the BISIMOTO H-series header and Bisi as a tuner:

Because of some stuff that I had to take care of last minute, Bisi started much later than he would have liked to. So due to the time constraints, we had to stop early.


BUT even still, look at what Bisi was able to extract from the motor! This particular motor is internally 100% BONE STOCK, and look at the numbers! The BISIMOTO header, Bisimoto-spec Kinsler ITBs, and Vibrant custom exhaust system combination yielded AWESOME results.




BISIMOTO Engineering FTW

31 whp and 21 ft lbs of torque gained!

Bisi tuned a 100% BONE STOCK internally F20B to 211 whp. That is ridiculous.

The purple graph is of the same exact motor with an RMF header and TWM 52mm ITBs. The Bisimoto header and Bisimoto-spec Kinsler ITB combo absolutely MURDERS the previous combination of RMF and TWM. Both setups were tuned on AEM EMS.

The horsepower gains are nice and smooth up until about 6200 and then they just GROW. The torque gains are wonderful all the way from 2000rpm up. And around 20 ft lbs are gained at 3400 rpm or so. Awesome, absolutely awesome gains.


Bisimoto

Kinsler

Vibrant

Slo-mo

HOT FIYAA!!. haha

Thats not even fully tuned and it already doing those kind of numbers. I cant wait to see what its gonna do fully tuned

Top 5 best header creator's for the H-series:

1.Bisi
2.Dylon
3.Bisi
4.Bisi
5. Dylon

haha. does it spit hot fire??

props to you Big Mike and to Bisi

Puma909

About time. Lol. Jk. Those are some impressive results. ^Lol, I didnt see that coming.

NirVTEC

Gee.....People are going to be ready to just throw money at him now.
I can't put any stock in that graph......Sorry.

What I see is a setup that had some nice parts and probably a shitty tune, replaced with possibly better parts and a better tune.
180/123 with an RMF header and ITBs? WTF is that all about.......

team123luder

Wrong, the old items on that motor, from what I remember were great and I believe they were bisi tuned before.

Mike know's obviously more then I do.

I'm going to compare my current setup to a bisi header as well, just waiting for them to be released and the rest of the R&D to be done..... Bisi would also love to do a comparison to my H22, as it's pretty much stock with just a Euro manifold and 70mm TB.

d112crzy

Yeah, custom spec Kinslers isn't exactly stock. Nor is it something that even 80% of H22/F20B owners will ever have. A little bit of an unfair comparison.

As for the original numbers, I'd like to know which RMF header was used. Also, which F20B is this, auto or manual? The cams are said to be different. I mean, I've gotten 185/156 on an h22a1 with a dc header and 70mm tb.

While the gains of the combo are impressive on an otherwise stock F20B, this test is not very conclusive as to whether or not the header makes more power over any competing headers.


now this
would be a great comparison.

What exhaust is on after the collector?

team123luder

My current exhaust is a full crush bent 2.5" exhaust, resonator and vibrant muffler.

I'm not going to change it for the comparison.

Once I'm done though, I'll upgrade to a 3" setup.

d112crzy

Sorry, that question was aimed at PinoyShadow.

UpgradeComplete

I have been told that the f20b is the automatic version (with the auto cams)

I agree that the 180 mark may be a bit low, but I did not own that motor.


As for the rmf version not being tuned. I doubt that very much. If you look at the graph you can tell that it had a superior tune before (with the rmf) then it does now.

In the post on cb7tuner, bisi's rep states that the car is not finished being tuned.

I agree it is an impressive jump, and I expected an rmf, itb f20b to put down higher then 180, but again It is not my motor so I can only speculate.

The other thing to notice, is that neither of these setups has topped out yet.

Both the bisi and the RMF header are still gaining strong.

I would like to see one built for an h22 with a lower power band and see how it compares.

PinoyShadow

Hahahahaha!!



You and I have both been on this board for quite a few years, and I have read numerous posts from you that I found to be informative and helpful in many different ways. But certain times you post things like this and it's just so unfortunate because you take away from your own credibility by showing such an opinionated and skewed persective.

Both setups were tuned by Bisi on the exact same motor and the exact same AEM EMS. The purple graph was done and tuned in like June of 2008 when Bisi didn't even have an H22 header out. As user "UpgradeComplete" mentioned, you can see that the previous tune was not "shitty" it was actually good.

What it comes down to is better parts make better power. And the Bisimoto header and Kinsler ITB setup is far superior to the RMF and TWM combo. Simple as that.


Correct, both graphs that are seen were tuned by Bisi.

Your H22 with a Euro manifold and 70mm tb will be a great platform to showcase a comparison.

PinoyShadow

Kinslers aren't stock, but neither are TWMs. So I don't follow your point nor how you think that it is "unfair" bro.

The first setup had an RMF "narrow" and TWM ITBs. The better setup has a Bisimoto header and Kinsler ITBs. There is an automatic and a manual F20B, with the manual F20B cams making more power. This motor has the automatic cams man, which makes these numbers even more impressive. And not just of Bisi as a tuner and the Bisimoto H22 header, but of the F20B motor itself.

The exhaust is a setup using all Vibrant performance products.


You are correct, the F20B has the auto cams.

You are correct, the RMF version was tuned and tuned well. The Bisimoto header just performs better.

You are correct, there is more power to be made up top and I hope that we can extract more power in the future.

This header was made for an H22.

meanshyguy

How much would the price be after the group buy?

UpgradeComplete

Header made for h22?

To me that does not make sense?

You should have sent a spec sheet and talked to bisi before you had your header made. In this spec sheet you should have told him (and I am suspecting you did) that the motor was the f20b.

Since the headers are made to individual specifications bisi would have built (I am assuming your header to have a slightly higher rpm power band) This is because the f20b inheritly revs higher than the h22 (unless alot of work is done).

Therefore bisi should have built the header (again I am assuming he did) for the f20b, not the h22.

The two motors have the same header flange and bolt pattern, but the design will incorporate a different power band.

(that being said, the motors are highly similar, but I was just trying to point out in my previous post that an h22 header could be designed for a lower power band)