94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Okay here is what I got on my Drive home.

98*f
11% humidity
50-minutes of shade w/ windows & sunroof cracked
118*f initial vent temp
Start engine & set recirculate & fan-4 (MAX)

- 70* @ idle after 1 minute
- 65* @ idle after 2 minutes
- 60* leaving parking lot
- 50* after 1/4 mile at 35mph
- 50* at stop light
- 45* @ 50mph
- 47* @ next light
- 42* @ 60mph (system won't cycle)
- I'm cold, drop fan speed to 3 (still on recirculate)
- 40* @ 60mph (system starts cycling on 3)
- 40* @ 40mph (system still cycling on 3)
- 40* @ 30mph (system still cycling on 3)
- 45* @ idle in driveway in sun for 1 minute on MAX (fan 4)

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Hey guys, I made this for everyone. It's the performance test chart from the book, but converted to typical US specs. I also added some lower humidity marks for us desert dwellers. Remember this test is meant to be performed under the following conditions:

Measurements taken after 10 minutes under the following conditions:
- AC on
- Fan speed at max (4)
- Vent set to recirculate
- Car in shade
- Doors open
- Engine at 1500rpm

Record Hi-Pressure
Record Lo-Pressure
Record Center Vent Temp
Record Ambient Temp
Record Ambient Humidity

Now your ready to fill out the chart. 1st you draw a vertical line straight up from the current ambient temp (yellow). Along that line mark the intersection of your current relative humidity at each of the 3 scales (red, green & blue). From there mark 10% above and 10% below each of your 3 marks. Now draw horizontal lines from each of your +/- 10% marks over to the corresponding scale. Your previously recorded vent temp, hi-pressure & low-pressure should all fall within the +/-10% window you've drawn. If any of them are outside that window, you are ready to start troubleshooting your system with the shop manual.

asianflava

Thanks for the converted chart. I've seen it in the manuals, but never took the time to figure out how to use it my gauges don't read in kPa either. Whenever I work on a system, it has a known problem i.e. bad compressor or leak. I've always got it to run without any problems, as I install a new dryer and expansion valve whenever I replace the compressor. This chart will give me a better indication of how well it's working.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, the chart in the book is ridiculously small and almost useless. Not to mention hand-drawn. I traced it in Autocad, and you can see a few diagonal lines in the high-pressure section are pretty uneven.

Also I noticed if you converted all the kPa & C numbers on the chart, they did NOT match the few numbers that were shown in PSI & F. I figured Honda's metric scales would be more accurate so I just converted them all and ignored any given US numbers. This is why my chart has some very weird increments.

I also moved the low-pressure scale up a little bit to clear the vent temp scale for increased clarity.

rountreesj

hey! does ANNNYONE know how to instal ANY full sized parallel flow condenser into my 92 civic. even with r12, it can't get colder than 50 on a 95 degree day on the second setting on recirculate...

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

is the system cycling even though it's running at 50*? My 94 EG w/ 134a gets down to ~43 at the lowest in mid-to-high 90's weather (while driving w/ fan speed 2 + recirculate).

If the system IS cycling the compressor, then I would look into testing the evaporator thermostat and/or cleaning any debris out the evaporator. Like the EF, the EG doesn't have a cabin filter, so the evaporator collects all the nasty **** over the years. Also check that the climate control cables are adjusted to completely close the heater core air & water passages (this is a common problem on the EG).

If your system is NOT cycling, then run the system test on your EG. You can't use the chart posted above since the EF system and pressure hook-ups are completely different. I did make another chart for the EG's w/ R134a. If yours came stock with R12 instead, google & download the 92 manual and run the R12 test (pm me if you need a link):

R134a EG test graph: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...estEGR134a.png

sumdewd

I wanted to reply back with some more observations I've made on my system.

I have a bad thermostat because I can cruise on I-4 at night in the rain at 65mph and the A/C will never get below exactly 50f at the vent even after 20 minutes on recirculation and max fan. It cycles at 50f no matter what and comes back on at 54f.

My evaporator is brand new and clean, so is the condenser. Thermostat was really the only thing that wasn't replaced. I'm thinking of depinning the connector and putting a toggle switch on it because I really don't want to lose my R-12 for a stupid thermostat. I drive all the time with the vent thermometer in anyway.

I adjusted my heater valve already. If I leave the A/C and fan off with the **** set to cold and drive for a half hour, the heater core is cool to the touch. Before I adjusted it, it was burning hot after 10 minutes.

Edit: Can you give me the link to that condenser? If I can maintain the stock condenser mounting setup, I might just try this in my friend's car with R-134a.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

This is the auction I used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/130696514731...731%26_rdc%3D1

Looks like that item is down right now as they've sold them all. Contact them and ask about it though. They are really good with communications and questions.

Here is what appears to be the same condenser from other online stores:

http://www.genesisautoparts.com/cond...a-crx-1989.htm

http://www.shepherdautoparts.com/con...honda/crx.html

Remember it's aftermarket and not a perfect fit. I had to bend of the chassis away at that bottom corner. It was a bitch with the bumper still in place. I also layered some foam tape between that little cured pipe and the chassis because it's a pretty tight spot.

Also the way that built-in pipe runs across the top is kinda jenky. It's completely unsecured. I covered that end fitting and the connecting compressor pipe with a bit of foam tape in a few spots where they might rub the chassis or condenser. Just to be safe. It does create a lot more "wiggle" in hard line between the compressor flex-hose and the condenser.

I also sliced off the old condenser's foam radiator seals and glued them onto the sides of this one with some rubber cement. Beats paying $20 for 2 new strips of foam from Honda. We'll see how my glue holds up.

steeltoe

I have an idea..I was just thinking this week, the next gen civics after the ef have the radiator and condenser completely separated from each other and actually sit side by side, or better put shoulder to shoulder and I'd bet thats what the engineers came up with because maybe the old way of mounting front2back wasn't maximizing condenser efficiency enough for the 134freon. If we make a similar setup along with an upgraded fan, I'd bet it'll have great increases in cooling while idling.

what do you think?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Well, every Honda since the EG/EK went back to the old front-to-back setup, so I I'm not so sure. Plus I have an EG as well and the AC is not as cold as the EF with the $40 condenser I linked above.

At best it my EG hits 42*, but it only does this on recirculate on the freeway. My EF runs about 3-5* cooler on average.

rountreesj

yea, my eg will hit 40 and cycle off on an 85 degree day. if i sit it at idle and put a hose on the condenser, it will cycle at 40-42 after 10 min no prob.

its all heat transfer. i also ran my windshield wiper pipe to the condenser while driveing and with 2 or 3 long sprays, it lowered the vent temps by 3 degrees in a minute.

the condensers are just too small on the 92-00 civics. especially here in GA, we get 100 degree weather with high humidity, plus my car is black. just cant transfer the heat...

i bought a universal parallel flow condenser offline thats twice the size as the eg condenser, and i will replace the evaporator. i had already cleaned it, but i just want to go ahead while i have it apart again.

btw, r134a is garbage in an r12 car. i put envirosafe in mine and the compressor has much less head pressure and it cools much better. 134 barely got a 15 degree drop in temps on a 92 degree day. i pulled that and vacuumed and simply replaced it with envirosafe and got 40 degree drop.... just sayin... still the condenser needs to be bigger.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

As I said, 134a works great in my EF. The EG may be a different story.

What head pressure were you seeing w/ 134a? My 94 was about 275 which at the time was slightly high for the temp & humidity.

For you EF people, don't pay attention. The EG samples the high pressure very close to the compressor (before the condenser) vs the EF so the numbers are a lot higher.

QuickStyle

can't find a live item going for the condenser sold by radiatorclassic on ebay. do you have a link for one, the link you gave says the item is no longer available. I've searched for the last 4 summers trying to find a drop in parallel flow condenser and no one makes one, a lot claim to be parallel flow but truly are not, just the stock serpentine flow. the one you posted seems to be the real parallel flow, so i hope they have more.

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the cool chart. My crx a/c runs in the 50's on a high 90's day with r134a using a gsr denso compressor. Can't wait to do the pepsi challenge with envirosafe...

rountreesj

you guys hear about them phasing r134 out because its environmentally unsafe now... hf1234a? or something is being used now...

WAY more flamable than envirosafe too







EPA









LOL

QuickStyle

I'd stay away from envirosafe, i know everything you read on it seems great, but i tried this stuff on 3 different vehicles with horrible results. the problem with it is you can't get the full charge in that is needed for the vehicle, you are suppose to put 35% of what your car takes to use envirosafe, but before you get to that point the high side pressures are so high(400psi) if you add more it will just go up, and causes the high pressure switch to cut off the compressor, even with the maximum charge i could get in without cycling the high pressure switch, i could barely get 50* vent temps on a 90* day. sure if i soaked the condenser in water i could get the full charge with a high side pressure of 250psi, but after the full charge was in, and the water was off the condenser high side would go over 400psi and cut off, this happened on 2 separate vehicles both with new drier, expansion valve, condenser, systems were up to par.

the only vehicle i was able to get it to work on was a 97 tahoe, which i believe the only reason it worked is because the condenser on this thing was huge and the engine driven fan was huge and fast. even though it worked the high side pressure was 375-400 at idle, 300-325 over 2000rpm. vent temps were 40* idle 30* over 40mph. mind you i could get this on this vehicle with r134a with much lower high side pressure(200psi). so i see no benefit in this refrigerant, only downside to it, as if you could get it to work, it will put more wear on your a/c since the high side pressures are not ideal.

if you dont want to believe what i say, i have two 50lb cans of evirosafe sitting here one is brand new never opened, the other one is about 5-6 low as i used it to charge these 3 vehicles, i will sell them to you.

0Deatschwerks

Can you shed any light on a possible place to source this condenser? eBay search yielded nothing and I checked Shepherd's site.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Sorry i can't. I have a feeling the ebay seller and those web-store links I gave you are all the same place. Did they tell you perhaps an ETA on getting them back in stock? Of course they are made in China, so it could be some time (who knows).

Sorry to get everyone worked up. DOH!

0Deatschwerks

Well...I just ordered all of the stuff I'm missing for my EE. The condenser is a little taco'd but I don't think it leaks. Don't really have anything to base that on other than hopes and dreams. :D

steeltoe

found this interesting bit of info posted by reaccion from civicwagon.com link below:
http://www.civicwagon.com/showthread...se-Help!/page3

it states the following experience of an ebay vs oem compressor from a third party source lol

I thought maybe it might help with the pieces of the puzzle:

Quote:
I have this comment from "Lilhatch89" in another website. He seemed to have the same problems with his A/C and seems to be very unhappy with the situation:

"This is simple. The compressor is sh*t, Its no good, get rid of it. Its a cheap as* ebay reman. I made the same mistake. I had an OEM Compressor that lasted two weeks of install before the front pully died. Before it died it blew ICE cold. I replaced it with a cheap as* replacement off ebay two years ago. From the point of install up till about two weeks ago The ac ran like ****, never would get cold, would cut off randmoly because the compressor would build up to much pressure. It would run fine at first but as it ran it would pretty much die off. Ran like this up till about two weeks ago when the pile of sh*t finally gave out. I took it into a shop had them save my Freon, left and went to a pull a part, I bought a OEM Compressor with a warranty, installed it in the parking lot went back and had my system recharged and its back to working in perfect ICE cold condition. Every syptom you have described is exactly what i had going on. This is a prime example you get what you pay for. Either buy a new OEM one or find a local junkyard with one that has a warranty, If you got a good mechanic he should not charge you anything to recover your freon and put it back in for ya.
Also your over heating issue is probably caused by the sh*tty compressor. My Sh*tty compresor would build up some much pressure it would choke the engine out before it finally shut down for 5 minutes and kick back on, in most cases sending my car into over heating"

steeltoe

any progress guys??

anyway some people seem to think that the expansion valve is the weak link, this guy in the following link converted his expansion valve to orifice tube and reports MUCH BETTER COOLING:

http://forum.w116.org/mechanicals/ul...de-conversion/

The following is part of the link above:



"It has been way long time since I last posted to our great forum. I hope I was missed.

I can tell you with this post,, not only will you see an improved efficiency with your AC system,, but I think some might even make money
by using this upgrade.

I converted my AC from TXV to Orifice Tube system. In the world of Cooling you will find a lot of data on the subject of TXV vs. Orifice Tube, and the conclusion might be that TXV is more efficient than OT. But we need to remember that our 116's are neither modern nor efficient. So what works for the goose does not necessary work for my 450.

what I did:

1. Uninsulated the TXV, you know how painfull job that is, I took the small not of the equalizing tube on the TXV, cut it at the end soldiered the end, and screwed it back on the evaporator on its place. So that inlet is now cancalled.

2. I got an L connector with female thread and placed it on the out line of the evaporator.

3. I got an accumulator . GM, Ford, is not important.
4. I got an OT housing, and fittings and made new hoses.
5. I mad a custom made fitting to install the temp sensor and pressure sensor which were on the "cancalled" dryer.

I know it hard to grasp my idea, but I know some one on this forum will understand exactly what I did and with your questions and my follow up photos. you will get it.

Advantages:
1. Much better cooling. It really does not matter R12or 134.
2. Easy maintenance, every thing is in the engine compartment, never again work underdashboard to install or remove TXV. replacement of OT takes 3 minutes, and much cheaper, flushing system is easier.
3. Better diagnostics of system."

Now shoot
Bolbol



could this be our problem?!!!