kingroor

fellow enthusiests i just bought my 2000 civic si completely stock, i need boost but i dont know which way to go turbocharger, supercharger, or procharger? can any turbo civic owners share some knowledge? thanks

chimmike

Well, we need more information:
1) Power goals?
2) Budget?
3) Knowledge level?

#3 I can pretty much answer because you're asking this question.

Turbo will always make more power, more efficiently than a supercharger of any kind. Turbo kits do end up costing more, and in some cases can be more complicated.

The common theme with all three of your options is that you MUST get a good tune via a good system. You cannot have a well running, reliable car without a good tune for your modifications.

Spend some time in the Forced Induction section doing some research. Read the FAQ's. Then, think about how much you're willing to spend, and that will determine how much horsepower you make.

I'll never go with a supercharger on 4 banger. Just don't make the power a turbo will with as wide a powerband. Plus, they just sound better. Turbo cars sound so much better!

B18CivicEJ8

In addition to what chimmike said, it shows your location is Anaheim, CA. In order to pass smog, you must get CARB legal turbo kits. That leaves you with Edelbrock and Greddy, AFAIK.

kingroor

i understand thAT the supercharger not only doesnt make as much power due to being spooled by the timing belt, and turbo only creates a little exhaust back pressure to spool the turbine ..as far as my budget goes i have enough to get any turbo i want without uprading my internals ....or i can buy a cheaper turbo and get new rods and pistons, cams ...etc.. it sounds to me like im going to have to rule out the supercharger...also forgot to mention that its my daily driver 30+miles a day so i need to run at low to medium boost maybe 7 what do you turbo heads with daily drivers run your boost at ..i know someone who can take care of my smog problem so i dont have to go with greddy or edelbrock..ive begun the research and i realized that i needed feedback because the pictures and literature dont say how the b16 responds to different types of boost...

CivicEK321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chimmike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, we need more information:
1) Power goals?
2) Budget?
3) Knowledge level?

#3 I can pretty much answer because you're asking this question.

Turbo will always make more power, more efficiently than a supercharger of any kind. Turbo kits do end up costing more, and in some cases can be more complicated.

The common theme with all three of your options is that you MUST get a good tune via a good system. You cannot have a well running, reliable car without a good tune for your modifications.

Spend some time in the Forced Induction section doing some research. Read the FAQ's. Then, think about how much you're willing to spend, and that will determine how much horsepower you make.

I'll never go with a supercharger on 4 banger. Just don't make the power a turbo will with as wide a powerband. Plus, they just sound better. Turbo cars sound so much better!</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2 I respect everybody's opinion, but personally, I like Supers.

ps. Shouldn't this be the FI forum?? Doesnt really matter though.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicEK321 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

x2 I respect everybody's opinion, but personally, I like Supers.

ps. Shouldn't this be the FI forum?? Doesnt really matter though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

As do I, but on a stock, low displacement engine such as the B16, the turbo would be the better choice by a longshot. Torque is the measurement of rotational power. Superchargers require torque to run - some more than others. The B16 has as much torque as a D16, which isn't a lot.

Superchargers are better on apps that have larger displacements, therefore higher torque. A turbocharger would be the better app here.

@ OP:
What the hell is a procharger? As far as I know I procharger is a company that makes superchargers..am I missing something? How is that in a different category than superchargers? Or do you just mean twin screw vs centrifugal vs blower (roots) superchargers?

CivicEK321

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What the hell is a procharger? As far as I know I procharger is a company that makes superchargers..am I missing something? How is that in a different category than superchargers? Or do you just mean twin screw vs centrifugal vs blower (roots) superchargers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea! What is that, because it cant be but so good, because I havent EVER heard of it!

project4dr-eg

he mostlikly means Ati procharger's almost every (not to down the op)person who dont know much about poweradder's and such always thinks there diff. from any other supercharger.

kingroor

correct me if im wrong thats why im here, but i thought a pro charger was not compressed by the twin screws or the tapered screws but actually by the turbo but a pro charger doesn't use exhaust to spool..i uses the timing belt like the supers...basically a combo of super and turbo...( turbo driven by the timing belt)

pearl95sc

procharger is a centrifigul supercharger, like a belt driven turbo. Gives good top end power like a turbo, but take the power to make the power. And its driven off the crank, not the timing belt.

Personally, I like roots superchargers, been boosted on my honda for 3 yrs, its the sound that I like in addition to the instantaneous torque. Don't get me wrong, a turbo on a lower displacement motor is the better route. In my case, i got it cheap, and havin a t-bird sc, i already knew what i was gettin into with the blower.

And on another note, if you get the jackson kit, and have LHT do the air/water intercooler mod, you can have a nasty 250ish whp daily driver, with a/c and p/s. The heat soak is what really kills the supercharger on the jaskson kit.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kingroor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">correct me if im wrong thats why im here, but i thought a pro charger was not compressed by the twin screws or the tapered screws but actually by the turbo but a pro charger doesn't use exhaust to spool..i uses the timing belt like the supers...basically a combo of super and turbo...( turbo driven by the timing belt)</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're wrong, I'll correct you.

Procharger is the name of a supercharger manfuacturing company who's most common product is aftercooled centrifugal supercharger kits.

There's three types of superchargers, twin screw, roots, and a centrifugal.

NONE of them are driven by the timing belt on a honda, they're driven by an accessory belt.

A centrifugal supercharger made by the company "procharger" is NOT a combo between a supercharger and a turbocharger. A turbo charger uses exhaust pressure to spin the turbine, a centrifugal supercharger uses a belt, their housing are similar as they have the same air principles, though a centrifugal supercharger will have a big bar sticking out of it with a pulley on the end from which it is powered, opposed to being connected to a manifold like a turbocharger is.

If you don't understand the difference feel free to IM me and I'll do my best to provide you with as much help as I can on the subject at hand.

As far as your original question, ALL superchargers are belt driven, they all take your engine's torque to spin them. With that said, as I said before, torque has a direct correlation with how much displacement an engine has. Honda engines are small, standard size 4 cylinder engine is 2.0L, honda's are obviously sub-standard. The B16a* doesn't produce a lot of torque, it's only a few more ft-lbs than a D16Z6. With that said, it robs you of a lot of torque to spin that compressor, and if you use a roots supercharger, which is a fixed displacement/positive displacement supercharger, your maximum HP will be capped - somewhere around 180hp at the wheels. Now, what you thought a procharger was (which I hope I clarified is simply the name of a supercharger production company), is a centrifugal supercharger, which has variable compression, not fixed like a roots supercharger. For a small displacement application where you don't have a lot of torque to spare, a centrifugal supercharger is usually better - this is because it's designed to make power up high, instead of low-mid range, your B16 makes its power high, you want a supercharger that fits where your engine makes power. The other 2 types (twin screw and roots) are made for low-mid range power, where your B16 doesn't make power. It's a conflict of interest as far as power under your hood goes.

Now with ALL of that said, you can pretty much discard it all. This is simply because even though a centrifugal supercharger would be the best for your application, it's still robbing torque away from the engine because the engine still loses torque spinning the supercharger's intake turbine. So the question is what would give the same effect, but not rob your engine from as much (if any) torque? That would be a turbocharger.

A turbocharger is the best way to gain power on a B16 as well as most other Honda applications.

Like I said, if you don't understand something I've said or you want further info, feel free to PM me.

Rok_Stok

Procharger is a centrifugal supercharger company here in Kansas City. I just wanted to represent a little.

I'd go with Full Race if I had the money to. They make some one the highest quality/design turbo kits and make rediculous power on stock motors. You're B16A2 is the perfect candidate and would be hella fast with one of these kits.


Modified by Rok_Stok at 10:30 PM 6/8/2008

Frickr

the only thing that really limits how much power a supercharger can make on a B16 is the way the motor spins. being as hondas spin counter clockwise, and most others spin clockwise, slims up the options. a supercharger will produce more power, and if you could find one or make one that spins counterclockwise, and is large enough, then you will have no problem. but eaton makes the biggest that jackson modifies, which when you start pushing enough boost to make alot of power runs out of the efficiency of the blower. much like a small turbo. as far as a blower taking power to make power, the power made is offset moreso then the power taken, so thats irrelivent.

turbos are more efficient due to less mechanical link to themotor. all thats needed to run them is the backpressure from your exaust. as far as buying a complete kit, like a full race setup. is almost identical in price to a jackson racing setup. you could build a turbo setup for cheaper.

all in all it just depends on what you want to do with the with the car. if you can handle around 200-250 whp then a jackson racing setup wouldnt be to bad. and you would have a nice flat tq. curve, and nearly instant powr. although the same results could be had with a well matched turbo. then there would be no limit on your power that you could make. it all depends on what you want. most people will tell you turbo, but its all up to you.

Seminole

iTrader: (1)

Research FTW bro. Also try the Forced Induction threads and use the search button. Lot's of threads on this already

kingroor

i understand thAT the supercharger not only doesnt make as much power due to being spooled by the timing belt, and turbo only creates a little exhaust back pressure to spool the turbine ..as far as my budget goes i have enough to get any turbo i want without uprading my internals ....or i can buy a cheaper turbo and get new rods and pistons, cams ...etc.. it sounds to me like im going to have to rule out the supercharger...also forgot to mention that its my daily driver 30+miles a day so i need to run at low to medium boost maybe 7 what do you turbo heads with daily drivers run your boost at ..i know someone who can take care of my smog problem so i dont have to go with greddy or edelbrock..ive begun the research and i realized that i needed feedback because the pictures and literature dont say how the b16 responds to different types of boost...

kingroor

i went with the turbo charger thanks to everybody in this forum thanks for the feedback after the install im posting my setup in the b16a turbo setups forum..thanks everybody...this post can now be forgotten

Rok_Stok

B16A2 turbo, lower compression ratio by .4 pt. which allows more compressed air in the cylinder, plus reduces the chance of detonation...kinda, there are ITR turbos out there running fine. It's all in the tune. And I reccommend a Hondata intake manifold gasket it will add a little more hp and it's relatively inexpensive.