EG-SIXV-TEC

I removed my engine oil pan from a fresh rebuild after like 3k miles d16z6 motor with vitara/eagle h rods. crank rod number 4 feels a little tighter than 2, 3, & 4. i remembered the endplay where like .015 to .014 on all of them. they where almost the same endplay in all 4.
i didn't measure it with a feeler gauge after 3k miles but you can really tell by the endplay big difference in number 4? side/to side play.
what cause of this??

0tech@Eagle

Did you do anything different on that cylinder? (different bearing, replaced that single rod at some point, etc.)

Also, please measure the side clearance and let me know what you find.

Alan D.

EG-SIXV-TEC

i didn't do anything to the car i didn't use any different bearing on that cylinder rod.
i measured my clearances end play.
specs b4 i run the car 0 miles
cyl 1 cyl 2 cyl 3 cyl 4
.015 .014 .014 .015

about 3k miles i put on
endplay specs rods

cyl 1 cyl 2 cyl 3 cyl 4
.015 .015 .015 .014 (the tightest endplay don't move as easily cylinder number 4 seems hard to move left and right unlike the other rods????? and seems to be tighter. something is wrong.)

0tech@Eagle

It looks like from what you measured they are all in spec. The tightness you feel must be something other than rod side clearance. What was the bearing clearance when you built it?

EG-SIXV-TEC

the bearing clearance where like .002 about the same on all rods.
i got it professionally measured by like 3 shops. because i couldn't get a good reading with the plastigauge. the shops all gave me the same specs. what is the tightness i feel when i move the number 4 rod? what could it be caused by?
is it bad? the other seems to be moving endplay more.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

When you say endplay, are you talking laterally, or vertically? IE if the crank is in front of you, nose to the left, flywheel to the right, is it moving left/right, up/down, or forward/backward?

EG-SIXV-TEC

i mean flywheel/ to crank pulley side to side. i cant seem to make it to move up/down its all tight up/down.
but yeah the side to side flywheel/crank pulley.

what cause that only #4 is the odd ball of them all???

0tech@Eagle

Side clearance seems fine. Bearing oil clearance seems fine. About the only other thing it could be is a tight piston pin. I'm not familiar with the Vitara pistons. Are they full floating with pin retaining clips?

EG-SIXV-TEC

I remembered they have a piston pin. it has a retaining C clip held in a groove.
they seems all okay when i put them together.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Those are floating pistons, then. When you dropped the pan, you didn't have any small metal rings in your oil or oil pan, or stuck under the baffles, did you?

EG-SIXV-TEC

no i didn't find any metal rings or anything in the oil pan. The oil looked very dirty.
The oil had like alot of very small particles looked browinish/like copper. i saw small particles just about it.

EG-SIXV-TEC

bump
i had some metal shavings but small but mainly there where alot of copper looking glitter mixed with the engine oil. you could see it if u put it in the light more like small pieces.

so could it be the piston thing causing the noise?
i got the motor inspected and the machinest checked the block he says it is good. but he condemed the rod bearings. due to the bronze looking glitters in engine oil.

he also found number 4 rod cap was mixed with number 2 rod cap.
the rods have serial numbers on them. he says it supposed the rod was supposed to be in order.

NerfGunner420

yup each piston has ITS OWN rod and rod caps. they are all balanced if you mix them you throw that balance off. the copper looking glitter is rod bearings its wore down the bearings real bad. wore down bearings would cause rod knock i don't know how bad your noise is but it could be happening to you

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Not only are they balanced, they're also forged/cast as a single piece, before the caps are separated. That goes for rods, mains, and cam caps. You absolutely MUST keep the same hardware with it's partners, or you have to line hone EVERYTHING.

EG-SIXV-TEC

okay i took the motor to a machinist. he inspected it and told me the problem. the engine oil had some bronze glitter looking copper in them.
I told him to inspect and rebuild the motor if its still usable. btw there where alot of carbon on the pistons and valves. very lots of them could that caused the dang knocking no start the next day issue after a very rough hill drive up hill? the next day with a following stupid no start. and i got it started then it knocks very hard faster and faster. told them that.

he inspected the rod number 4 cap side to side movement flywheel to crank pulley side ways. i remembered though when i first put the motor together there where one of em with slightly hard endplay or something.


the number 4 rod cap was mismatched with the rod cap number 2 rod. but the crankshaft journals and block journals where all good no grooves or anything. he also checked piston/ rods clearances he says its okay. but found like a small knick on piston number 2? asked if i hit it or dropped it i said no. but the piston side skirt felt smooth. he says its okay bores all good. etc.

i paid him to reasemble the bottom end with new mains/rod bearings.
and everything. the head he says its okay.

he told me that the rod mismatched and the rod 4 caused the engine knocking with no endplay. he builds alot of race cars like boosted toyotas and hondas. also some chevy block motors. he showed me some of his motors.
The rod endplay was very loose like side to side.

i will pick the motor up on monday hopefully i can install it without having any knock or problems again. he told me to use the 15w40 oil last time i used the 5w30 for 3k miles and 1/2 oil low runnining it hard up a hill.

im still shocked though could the stupid number 4 rod without endplay cause the dang engine knocking with no start?
my motor is ready to be installed with my turbo setup but im still stumped
and confused on how it casue a no start and a knocking sound when i got it to start..