Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction???
02-28-2002, 11:44 PM
#1
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Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction???
Originally posted by Nexus242
I can't imagine Prestone, Zerex or Peak would cause erosion of your inner gaskets even if they are Honda gaskets. Just stick with a top name brand and you should be alright with no leaks. :D
I can't imagine Prestone, Zerex or Peak would cause erosion of your inner gaskets even if they are Honda gaskets. Just stick with a top name brand and you should be alright with no leaks. :D
Let's play fair. I'll provide you with evidence and you dispute it. That way you can't plead ignorance or lack of imagination...
SOURCE: Any Honda Dealer Web Site
<u>Why must I use Honda-brand antifreeze/coolant in my engine/radiator?</u>
* Most coolants labeled safe for aluminum engines actually aren't. The silicates and/or borates added to most coolants act as <FONT COLOR="red">abrasives</FONT> on the cooling systems.
* Honda's formulation for coolant does not use silicates or borates to enhance the corrosion protection for aluminum components. Instead, Genuine Honda antifreeze/coolant uses a proprietary organic corrosion inhibitor.
* The advantages of the Honda coolant are clear. Its ability to inhibit corrosion and the absence of silicates makes it the <FONT COLOR="red">only</FONT> coolant recommended for your Honda.
* If Genuine Honda antifreeze/coolant is not available, you may use another major-brand non-silicate coolant as a <FONT COLOR="red">temporary</FONT> replacement. Make sure it is a high-quality coolant recommended for aluminum engines.
* However, <FONT COLOR="red">continued use of any non-Honda coolant may result in corrosion, causing the cooling system to malfunction or fail</FONT>. Have the cooling system flushed and refilled with Honda antifreeze/coolant as soon as possible.
<u>Why must I use Honda-brand antifreeze/coolant in my engine/radiator?</u>
* Most coolants labeled safe for aluminum engines actually aren't. The silicates and/or borates added to most coolants act as <FONT COLOR="red">abrasives</FONT> on the cooling systems.
* Honda's formulation for coolant does not use silicates or borates to enhance the corrosion protection for aluminum components. Instead, Genuine Honda antifreeze/coolant uses a proprietary organic corrosion inhibitor.
* The advantages of the Honda coolant are clear. Its ability to inhibit corrosion and the absence of silicates makes it the <FONT COLOR="red">only</FONT> coolant recommended for your Honda.
* If Genuine Honda antifreeze/coolant is not available, you may use another major-brand non-silicate coolant as a <FONT COLOR="red">temporary</FONT> replacement. Make sure it is a high-quality coolant recommended for aluminum engines.
* However, <FONT COLOR="red">continued use of any non-Honda coolant may result in corrosion, causing the cooling system to malfunction or fail</FONT>. Have the cooling system flushed and refilled with Honda antifreeze/coolant as soon as possible.
<u>Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go</u>
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant, have proven that the <FONT COLOR="red">abrasive</FONT> silicates and/or borates found in most domestic coolants can cause these problems:
* Silicates bond to the <FONT COLOR="red">surface of the water pump seal</FONT> and act as an <FONT COLOR="red">abrasive</FONT>, causing considerable <FONT COLOR="red">seal erosion and coolant leakage</FONT>.
* In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused <FONT COLOR="red">early leakage</FONT>. This <FONT COLOR="red">leakage increased dramatically</FONT> until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost.
* In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through the duration of the test.
<FONT COLOR="blue">There was a chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours. This is the text</FONT>:
Time
Honda Coolant volume leaked
Typical Silicated Coolant volume leaked
24 hours
0 ml
21 ml
48 hours
1 ml
36 ml
72 hours
2 ml
47 ml
96 hours
2 ml
55 ml
120 hours
2.5 ml
56 ml
144 hours
3.5 ml
57 ml
168 hours
4 ml
58.8 ml
192 hours
6 ml
63 ml
200 hours
6 ml
64 ml
* <FONT COLOR="red">Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating</FONT>.
* <FONT COLOR="red">Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head</FONT>.
* Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
<FONT COLOR="red">Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term durability of the combination was not tested</FONT>.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
* No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. <FONT COLOR="red">Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage</FONT>. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
* <FONT COLOR="blue">(graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line) </FONT>
* No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
* Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
* Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). <FONT COLOR="red">Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands</FONT>. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, <FONT COLOR="red">you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant</FONT>.
[Modified by BlackDeuceCoupe, 1:49 AM 3/1/2002]
03-01-2002, 12:12 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (BlackDeuceCoupe)
As much as I dislike BDC, this is a true fact.
Honda coolant is made for the Honda seals.
I personally had a waterpump go bad after 20k miles using another coolant brand (won't say name), and now after using the Honda brand coolant, the motor has 40k miles on it, and no leaks at all.
Hell, it's only $15 for a bottle of coolant, and you only need 1/2 the bottle. So how much are you really saving by getting the cheap stuff?
Honda coolant is made for the Honda seals.
I personally had a waterpump go bad after 20k miles using another coolant brand (won't say name), and now after using the Honda brand coolant, the motor has 40k miles on it, and no leaks at all.
Hell, it's only $15 for a bottle of coolant, and you only need 1/2 the bottle. So how much are you really saving by getting the cheap stuff?
03-01-2002, 04:07 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (B18C-EJ1)
As much as I dislike BDC, this is a true fact.
Honda coolant is made for the Honda seals.
I personally had a waterpump go bad after 20k miles using another coolant brand (won't say name), and now after using the Honda brand coolant, the motor has 40k miles on it, and no leaks at all.
Hell, it's only $15 for a bottle of coolant, and you only need 1/2 the bottle. So how much are you really saving by getting the cheap stuff?
Honda coolant is made for the Honda seals.
I personally had a waterpump go bad after 20k miles using another coolant brand (won't say name), and now after using the Honda brand coolant, the motor has 40k miles on it, and no leaks at all.
Hell, it's only $15 for a bottle of coolant, and you only need 1/2 the bottle. So how much are you really saving by getting the cheap stuff?
We all know, of course, that Honda coolant ISN'T made by Honda, right? It is made by Prestone (as far as many people can determine), but it is manufactured to Honda standards of PURE etylene glycol with minimal additives.
This is also the DexCool standard.
The old, cheap stuff with silicates and borates were hell on Honda water pump seals, although it didn't "ruin" anything - the seals just leaked.
The real savings is that when you're changing the coolant fluid, it's almost invariably when the dealership is closed, and you just ran out of coolant. Advance is just down the street - couldn't we just....
That's almost always how the foreign coolants make it into the Honda systems.
Shawn
03-01-2002, 09:10 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (shawnhayes)
man I paid 18 bucks from a dealership for that honda coolant, but then i only used half the gallon bottle also.
03-01-2002, 12:54 PM
#5
Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (samdawgsol)
I've been using no name for about 8 years and never had a leak yet. I've also never had to replace a water pump on any of my cars but I did have to replace one once on my girlfriend's civic that wasn't gasket related. I've put about 100,000 on my civic since I've had it (it has 160,000 total) if it matters. All 100,000 of those were on no name anti-freeze because the car was wrecked when I bought it back in the day, and it needed a radiator. Just food for thought.
I'm not saying its wrong just because I haven't had a problem, but I know about 10 other people who just use whatever antifeeze is around and have never had a problem. Also, my dad has been rebuilding wrecked honda's since 1984 and that's all my family ever owns and drives. We've never used honda coolant, and about 70% have had the radiators replaced due to crash damage meaning they've had total coolant changes never with honda fluid. We've probably owned about 25 - 30 honda's since 1984 and honestly have never had a coolant leak on any of them.
I think its probably mostly honda hype. I'm sure their coolant is better, but I doubt there is any noticable difference. Same goes for their oil filters. If you took two brand new cars off of the lot and used only store brand filters on one and only honda on the other, I'd bet anything that all other factors the same, the two cars would last just as long as one another. This stuff makes such a minor difference it's not worth worrying about.
Just my .02 from my experiences.
I'm not saying its wrong just because I haven't had a problem, but I know about 10 other people who just use whatever antifeeze is around and have never had a problem. Also, my dad has been rebuilding wrecked honda's since 1984 and that's all my family ever owns and drives. We've never used honda coolant, and about 70% have had the radiators replaced due to crash damage meaning they've had total coolant changes never with honda fluid. We've probably owned about 25 - 30 honda's since 1984 and honestly have never had a coolant leak on any of them.
I think its probably mostly honda hype. I'm sure their coolant is better, but I doubt there is any noticable difference. Same goes for their oil filters. If you took two brand new cars off of the lot and used only store brand filters on one and only honda on the other, I'd bet anything that all other factors the same, the two cars would last just as long as one another. This stuff makes such a minor difference it's not worth worrying about.
Just my .02 from my experiences.
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03-01-2002, 01:14 PM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (Speed_Ricer99)
hey bdc......what do you do for a job again!?!?!? cuz you are the man to talk to for oil questions, and not coolent questions..
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03-02-2002, 12:29 AM
#8
HT White Ops
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (shawnhayes)
The new DexCool formulations seem to be as good, if not better, as the Honda coolant.
We all know, of course, that Honda coolant ISN'T made by Honda, right? It is made by Prestone (as far as many people can determine), but it is manufactured to Honda standards of PURE etylene glycol with minimal additives.
This is also the DexCool standard.
We all know, of course, that Honda coolant ISN'T made by Honda, right? It is made by Prestone (as far as many people can determine), but it is manufactured to Honda standards of PURE etylene glycol with minimal additives.
This is also the DexCool standard.
The problem I have with Dex-Cool is that they have simply substituted silicates and borates with another cutting-edge inhibitor technology. Texaco uses an inorganic salt-based carboxylate and organic acid technology [OAT] additive/inhibitor package to extend its' range of compatibility with other antifreezes. This is hardly a high-tech solution [no pun intended] to silicate antifreezes, as far as I'm concerned...
03-02-2002, 12:42 AM
#9
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (therealciviczc)
I've been using no name for about 8 years and never had a leak yet...
...I've also never had to replace a water pump on any of my cars...
...I've put about 100,000... All 100,000 of those were on no name anti-freeze...
...I know about 10 other people who just use whatever antifeeze is around and have never had a problem...
...my dad has been rebuilding wrecked honda's... We've never used honda coolant...
...We've probably owned about 25 - 30 honda's since 1984 and honestly have never had a coolant leak on any of them...
...I've also never had to replace a water pump on any of my cars...
...I've put about 100,000... All 100,000 of those were on no name anti-freeze...
...I know about 10 other people who just use whatever antifeeze is around and have never had a problem...
...my dad has been rebuilding wrecked honda's... We've never used honda coolant...
...We've probably owned about 25 - 30 honda's since 1984 and honestly have never had a coolant leak on any of them...
03-02-2002, 12:44 AM
#10
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (samdawgsol)
man I paid 18 bucks from a dealership for that honda coolant, but then i only used half the gallon bottle also.
Sheesh!!!
03-02-2002, 12:46 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (Speed_Ricer99)
Damn! when you make a point, your really make a f**king point 
03-02-2002, 12:48 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (FifthGearOnline)
...you are the man to talk to for oil questions, and not coolent questions...
03-02-2002, 04:01 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (BlackDeuceCoupe)
Yeah, a lot of ppl substitute Texaco Havoline Dex-Cool for OEM coolant[s] in Jap cars. Ditto for Euro cars. However, it still isn't as good as Honda HP Coolant, IMO, which was designed by Honda R&D specifically for use in Honda cars, motorcycles, et cetera.
The problem I have with Dex-Cool is that they have simply substituted silicates and borates with another cutting-edge inhibitor technology. Texaco uses an inorganic salt-based carboxylate and organic acid technology [OAT] additive/inhibitor package to extend its' range of compatibility with other antifreezes. This is hardly a high-tech solution [no pun intended] to silicate antifreezes, as far as I'm concerned...
My knowledge of the Honda coolant is that it's manufactured by Prestone to Honda specifications (which, as best as I know) is a minimal corrosion inhibitor package with a minimal amount of an unspecified lubricant package (the technology seems proprietary). I would hope that Prestone would "leak" this specification to other formulations of it's coolants, but you seem much more up on this topic. Care to share more?
Shawn
(i.e. - help a brother out, yo)
03-02-2002, 01:45 PM
#14
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (shawnhayes)
...I drain and refill my radiator very frequently, and I admit to using non-Honda coolant sometimes. I'd like to feel better about $18 a gallon, if you can help...
I pay $17.75 a gallon for Honda HP Type-I Coolant at my dealer, but I usually have a 20% off coupon or such, lowering the per-application price to around $7.50 per flush and fill [half-gallon of coolant/half-gallon of distilled water]. Do you consider this too much??? I don't. I do it every 15,000 miles...
03-02-2002, 01:46 PM
#15
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (juvenile)
Originally posted by juvenile
...Because Honda is more concentrating. The other manufactures of Anti-Freeze have to make it for a lot of different vehicles...
...Because Honda is more concentrating. The other manufactures of Anti-Freeze have to make it for a lot of different vehicles...
When you buy generic antifreeze, it HAS to be able to mix with ALL other brands and types of coolants without causing any damage to various types of cooling systems. Why???
Ppl are lazy and stupid. Most ppl will never change their coolant the whole time they own their vehicle. When the overflow bottle gets empty, they go to Wal-Mart and buy the cheapest thing they can find. Then they go out in the parking lot and put it in. The rest of the bottle sits in their trunk, or in their garage for a year or two, or until the tank runs dry again.
So, what are the two most important properties for any 'generic' antifreeze? They must have an extended shelf-life and they must be able to mix with all other brands and types of antifreeze.
Good point, bro! I touched on this a few messages back, but really didn't develop it properly...
03-02-2002, 07:42 PM
#16
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (DragonCTR69)
Hey did you take a course in Logic by any chance?
03-02-2002, 09:17 PM
#17
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (4jacks)
Originally posted by 4jacks
BDC... I admire your persistence, But your original statement still has flaws, even though I Believe you that Honda's product is better. I can't let you simply trash talk a whole industry.
BDC... I admire your persistence, But your original statement still has flaws, even though I Believe you that Honda's product is better. I can't let you simply trash talk a whole industry.
SOURCE:Motormouth, Published January 3, 2002
<FONT COLOR="red">Q</FONT>. I have a 1990 Nissan, a 1995 Toyota and a 1999 Honda. I would like to use an extended-life antifreeze. The manufacturers' customer assistance people will not tell me whether the antifreeze is compatible. How does one know if you can use this type of antifreeze? J.C., Oakbrook Terrace
<FONT COLOR="blue">A</FONT>. Don't use it. There have been numerous cooling-system problems reported by numerous automakers when extended-life coolants were used in engines that were not designed for it. Gaskets and seals can leak and so on. Stick with the stuff your car came with.
*Bob Weber is an ASE-certified Master Automobile Technician, having recertified every five years since 1978. Address your technical questions about cars and trucks to him in care of Motormouth, 17717 Silcott Springs Rd., Purcellville, Va., 20132. Send e-mail, including name and town, to MMTribune@netscape.net. Answers will be supplied only through the newspaper.
<FONT COLOR="red">Q</FONT>. I have a 1990 Nissan, a 1995 Toyota and a 1999 Honda. I would like to use an extended-life antifreeze. The manufacturers' customer assistance people will not tell me whether the antifreeze is compatible. How does one know if you can use this type of antifreeze? J.C., Oakbrook Terrace
<FONT COLOR="blue">A</FONT>. Don't use it. There have been numerous cooling-system problems reported by numerous automakers when extended-life coolants were used in engines that were not designed for it. Gaskets and seals can leak and so on. Stick with the stuff your car came with.
*Bob Weber is an ASE-certified Master Automobile Technician, having recertified every five years since 1978. Address your technical questions about cars and trucks to him in care of Motormouth, 17717 Silcott Springs Rd., Purcellville, Va., 20132. Send e-mail, including name and town, to MMTribune@netscape.net. Answers will be supplied only through the newspaper.
03-03-2002, 04:19 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (BlackDeuceCoupe)
I pay $17.75 a gallon for Honda HP Type-I Coolant at my dealer, but I usually have a 20% off coupon or such, lowering the per-application price to around $7.50 per flush and fill [half-gallon of coolant/half-gallon of distilled water]. Do you consider this too much??? I don't. I do it every 15,000 miles...
So, although $7.50 per 15,000 is certainly not unreasonable, $30 per 16,000 just SEEMS more unreasonable.
Hey, where are all these other posts you're replying to???
Shawn
[Modified by shawnhayes, 1:20 PM 3/3/2002]
03-03-2002, 05:04 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (DragII)
do you work for honda?
Lord help me, but what I do for fun (other than work on my car) is to hang out with the people from parts at my local dealership, and as a result of that, I spend a lot of time with the techs as well.
I learn a lot this way, although the best way is to do it yourself. I find that they have the proper tools more often than I (especially the air wrenches) that make the jobs much easier for them than I. (Although often I think they don't pull out the torque wrench when they should).
Learning is the most fun, though, even if I'll never use it.
Shawn
03-03-2002, 05:07 AM
#21
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (shawnhayes)
and BTW who the hell is bob weber....and why should we give a chit about his comments on anti-freeze...
IMO his comments are nothing more than "playing it safe" on a subject he has never thought about before.
IMO his comments are nothing more than "playing it safe" on a subject he has never thought about before.
03-03-2002, 07:45 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (BlackDeuceCoupe)
yeah, good job , i've always used honda coolant for the past 5 years and never had a problem, but what if you add Redline's WaterWetter to the 50/50 mixture, will that effect any of it, since it was design perhaps on most domestic iron-cast motors. just a thought
03-03-2002, 10:27 AM
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (therealciviczc)
Here's some more anecdotal evidence people are free to ignore:
In the early 90s I changed the anti-freeze in my '90 'Teg and used Prestone. I set out the very next day from Albany, NY to Boston, Mass. and my radiator went dry half-way there. It sprung a leak somewhere and pissed anti-freeze all over the inside of the engine bay. The closest dealership (Ron Bouchard's Acura of Auburn, mass.) said that my radiator had leaked and I need a new one. Rental car the rest of the way ...
Coincidence? I thought so at the time but now I'm convinced it was the anti-freeze that caused the leak.
Now, I use Peak Extended-Life (it is free of borates and silicates) and have some in my newer car ('95 Civic) right now. I was unable to remove the freeze plugs and drain the engin properly so it's actually a mixture ... which is supposed to be OK. Dex Cool is supposedly unable to be mixed with anything else. The Peak bottle said their's could be mixed with any and all ... including Dex Cool.
For what it's worth, my Dad's 2000 Mercury Marquis specifically warns against using an "Extended Life" coolant.
--- Bror Jace
In the early 90s I changed the anti-freeze in my '90 'Teg and used Prestone. I set out the very next day from Albany, NY to Boston, Mass. and my radiator went dry half-way there. It sprung a leak somewhere and pissed anti-freeze all over the inside of the engine bay. The closest dealership (Ron Bouchard's Acura of Auburn, mass.) said that my radiator had leaked and I need a new one. Rental car the rest of the way ...
Coincidence? I thought so at the time but now I'm convinced it was the anti-freeze that caused the leak.
Now, I use Peak Extended-Life (it is free of borates and silicates) and have some in my newer car ('95 Civic) right now. I was unable to remove the freeze plugs and drain the engin properly so it's actually a mixture ... which is supposed to be OK. Dex Cool is supposedly unable to be mixed with anything else. The Peak bottle said their's could be mixed with any and all ... including Dex Cool.
For what it's worth, my Dad's 2000 Mercury Marquis specifically warns against using an "Extended Life" coolant.
--- Bror Jace
03-03-2002, 10:42 AM
#24
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction???
Why argue about which rinky dink coolant is the best? For a few bucks more, just switch to a real system like Fluidyne/Evans and be done with it. Unless your cars are just daily drivers, in which case Evans coolant would be overkill.
03-03-2002, 05:02 PM
#25
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Re: Genuine Honda Factory Coolant - Fact or Fiction??? (SANBST)
yeah, good job , i've always used honda coolant for the past 5 years and never had a problem...
...but what if you add Redline's WaterWetter to the 50/50 mixture, will that effect any of it, since it was design perhaps on most domestic iron-cast motors. just a thought
I run Red Line Water Wetter, but I've been thinking about giving it up. Since a CiViC only has 1.1 gallons of coolant, you only need to use 4-ounces of Water Wetter. However, Water Wetter has mad pH and it 'wears out' V quickly. Red Line recommends you dump 'n' flush your system every 15k or else. If you decide to use Water Wetter, I STRONGLY suggest you follow Red Line's instructions.
Actually, Water Wetter doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference when mixed with antifreeze. Supposedly it does, but you couldn't prove it by me. It's designed to be used with straight water in racecars. Many organizations will not allow you to use antifreeze on their tracks, but racers felt like they needed some sort of surficant; a cheater's edge. That's why Water Wetter was originally made, and that's the enviroment in which it works best; racecars running straight water.
I change ALL fluids every 15k anyway, so it's no big deal, but I'm growing tired of wondering what the pH is doing to my engine. As soon as I use the last of my Water Wetter, I doubt if I'll buy another bottle.
Bottom line: If you run Red Line Water Wetter, follow the instructions...