jonebone

First I don't have any updated pics currently (or that good a digital camera for that matter), but I might add some on Saturday after washing my car for reference.

For those who don't know, I'm running Eibach Sportlines (1.4" drop all round) with NO camber kit. I've also upgraded to 18" performance wheels (Gram Light 57Fs @ 16.8 lbs a wheel) wrapped in 225/40/18 Nitto Neo Gens. These two were put on the car simultaneously at 12,750 miles and I currently just changed the oil and rotated my tires at 20,010 miles.

First off I did everything the "wrong" way. I got bashed and flamed on this board because A) I never got my car aligned after upgrading suspension/wheels and B) I never got a camber kit. Now that almost 8,000 miles have passed, I wanted to share my results with the community.

Don't fall into the lies that you NEED a camber kit and that you NEED an alignment. That's a bunch of crap.

In rotating my tires, I noticed that the front ones have slightly more wear than the back ones (DUH), but there is absolutely NO camber wear whatsoever... even though both of my rear tires camber inwards. I'm not sure if this is attributable to good tires (Nitto Neo Gens are supposed to be camber wear resistant), but there is no noticable wear. I'd describe my style of driving as moderate/aggressive also. Maybe once or twice a day I'll redline through 1st and 4th. Once or twice a week I'll powershift through all the gears and chirp 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Despite this, the camber wear is nonexistant.

Also, I never got an alignment. When I let go of the steering wheel, my car still drives completely straight and does not veer to the left or right. I also went to 3 different shops and all of them told me I was "too low" to be aligned by their machines. Therefore I never got an alignment and my tire wear has still been great. I'd estimate the rears have about 80-85% tread left and the fronts are at about 70%.

I just wanted to kill the myths about "do the suspension / aftermarket wheel upgrade the right way". Spend your money as you see fit, don't let everyone on these forums dictate how you should spend your money. I'd say at least 75% of these boards would call you stupid if you drop your car more than 1" without getting an alignment / camber kit... but my firsthand experience proves otherwise.

Have a nice day.

IT GUY

Camber doesn't kill tires, toe does (my old integra ate tires until I put toe adjusters on, then everything was cool)... you got lucky that the toe in was still within' spec.. not seeing camber wear isn't that big of a deal, especially with tires that are supposed to be resistant to it...

There's still a right and wrong way to do things... you took a chance and did it the wrong way, and it worked out for you.. way to go

I hope some kid with a basemodel civic doesn't dump his brand new car on ebay coilovers and think to himself "Well Jonebone told me I didn't need an alignment"
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonebone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I just wanted to kill the myths about "do the suspension / aftermarket wheel upgrade the right way". Spend your money as you see fit, don't let everyone on these forums dictate how you should spend your money. I'd say at least 75% of these boards would call you stupid if you drop your car more than 1" without getting an alignment / camber kit... but my firsthand experience proves otherwise.

Have a nice day. </TD></TR></TABLE>

EXACTLY! Spend your money as you see fit... don't go without an alignment because some guy on a board did it and everything is ok.. don't get an alignment because someone on a board told you to.. make your own judgement call.. I'm not calling Jonebone stupid because our views differ on how to do things.. I guess I'm really trying to make the same point as Jonebone, but I didn't want his post to influence people to dump their cars and not get an alignment.. just like he didn't want other posts to make you believe you needed an alignment if you lowered your car... There's alot of great experience to learn from on HT, but it all has to be taken with a grain of salt.. and ultimately your decision is your own to make. Sorry if it seems like I'm giving you a hard time man.. no hard feelings?

IGotNoSwap

kind of misinforming the rest of h-t. just because your car is lowered you dont need a camber kit. i've seen people dumped 2.5" or lower and still have no camber kit.....you still need to get an alignment though.

the reason everyone mentions alignment is because when you alter your susp. your toe can get way out of wack...in your case you're lucky, you're probably still within specs.

i guarantee if your toe was out of spec, you would definately notice it on your tires.

Bulli Kid

whats toe? chamber? and what does an alignment actually do? what do they actually change to get it in spec?

Type X

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IGotNoSwap &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kind of misinforming the rest of h-t. just because your car is lowered you dont need a camber kit. i've seen people dumped 2.5" or lower and still have no camber kit.....you still need to get an alignment though.

the reason everyone mentions alignment is because when you alter your susp. your toe can get way out of wack...in your case you're lucky, you're probably still within specs.

i guarantee if your toe was out of spec, you would definately notice it on your tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Ding ding ding.

IT GUY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonebone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Camber kit is the only answer here... theres no secret voodoo spell that will fix your camber magically if thats what you are looking for.

I know there's at least one guy on this forum with 20s, maybe he'll chime in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But I thought you found the magic spell???

Lower your car, click your heels three times, say, "there's nothing like JDM" and POOF! alignment issues are gone... isn't that what this thread is about?

capnxtreme

This is, quite honestly, one of the stupidest ******* posts I have ever read on the Internet. OP, GTFO. If anyone listens to your advice they deserve the results.

jonebone

lol @ the n00b above me being that angered by my post. He disliked this thread so much he just had to bump it himself...

I know TOE eats tires more than camber. And did anyone even bother to READ my post??

I said that I went to THREE DIFFERENT SHOPS, specifically Mr. Tire, Midas and a local shop called Southern Tire and Automotive. After all 3 of them telling me that my car was too low to be aligned by their machines, I said expletive it I'll take my chances. I'm not driving hours away to get my car aligned.

What's next I get flamed for not buying the $600 koni shocks too?!? Pshhhh...

Nexx

Well all I can say is for being within specs especially on your toe angles. Most people on the other hand are not as fortunate when they change their suspension. :D

I:_Drive

this children is why the import community is so frowned upon... half assing everything. he will prolly be the guy you see driving around with the primered body kit too. nice job dude

capnxtreme

actually I LIKED it so much that I had to bump it. And yes I am a newb because my # of posts on HT is low. pwned me u genius.

You deserve an award of some kind.

Let's recap:

1) big drop on stock shocks - AWESOME - yes you should get flamed for this
2) too low to align - AWESOME - this is your excuse for not getting an alignment? That it's too low? Ever consider that maybe how low you are, is too low?
3) no alignment - AWESOME - you gambled w/ your tires and handling characteristics, and supposedly got pretty lucky. Congratufuckinglations. Now it's time to encourage all the other ricers to roll w/out alignments on stock shocks.
4) start a review post that has nothing of a review whatsoever, and simply misguided advice - PRETTY AWESOME BRAH

I would say drive off a cliff but it'd be a waste of an Si.

p.s. I like your use of the term "performance wheels." You, sir, are clearly NOT a newb to the performance world.


Modified by capnxtreme at 8:07 AM 7/27/2007

jonebone

Alright well since you are new to the boards, I'm assuming you are also new to owning an SI. Eibach Sportlines are NOT a "big" drop.

1" drops (small drop) : Tein H Techs, Comptech, HFP Suspension, Eibach Pros
&lt; 1.5" drops (moderate) : Eibach Sportlines, Tein S Techs, Progress, Neuspeed Sports
2" drops (big drops, aka "slammed"): Coilovers, Neuspeed Race, Skunk 2

So now that you are educated, allow me to correct your statements.

1) Its not a "big" drop, its moderate. I'm not stupid enough to be SLAMMED on stock shocks, but then again I'm not paying $600+ for the HFP suspension when its barely noticeable. How about you do a search on these forums, and even on 8thcivic and tell me how many people have blown their stock shocks with a 1.5" drop? Hmm... how about none?

» No Results Found

Your search for blown shocks returned no results.
Please try different search criteria or a different data set

I'm sure you'll tell me that "well you haven't driven on them long enough". Well when I feel them start to go, then I'll go with aftermarket shocks then... and they probably will have dropped in price as well. Ever heard the saying "If it's not broke, don't fix it?"

2) I'm about 3-4" off the ground on 18" wheels. There are lots of people with setups lower to the ground than me. My wheels aren't even tucked. Not my fault that my local shops are incompetent or want to make excuses why they can't align my car.

3) I'm not encouraging anyone. If you want to follow in my footsteps, that is your choice; no one is holding a gun to anyone's head. I'm just sharing my experiences with the community as a second opinion. If you don't like it then how about you GTFO of my thread. You have posted absolutely no relevent information and have only tried to flame me. If you have a problem, DO IT WITH ME OVER PM.

4)
Re-view (n.) [ri-vyoo] - definition (17 of 21):
"to look back upon; view retrospectively"

Courtesy of dictionary.com

And as for performance wheels, do you know what the stock 17" wheels weigh? Probably not. I'll do you a favor and save the searches, they are about 21.5-22 lbs each. My cold-forged JDM Rays Engineering wheels weigh in at 16.8 lbs a piece. Therefore I've cut about 20 lbs of rotational weight, hence the term "performance". Would you to make another rebuttal now, genious???

For mis-educated n00bs that "know" everything there is to know about cars.

And LOL @ the guy who said I'd roll around in a primered body kit. Don't you think I would have bought the one in the July FS thread for $400 bucks then? Stereotype much?

Type X

I take no suspension/camber anything advice from someone

who drinks, speeds and slides into poles...installed a few things and now is a "pro"

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1850077

IT GUY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I take no suspension/camber anything advice from someone

who drinks, speeds and slides into poles...installed a few things and now is a "pro"

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1850077

</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^best post yet

you left out rides around with "alteeza" taillights

OP never mentioned he was replacing wheels and suspension components anyways.. When you trash a stock wheel or two and a coil spring flies off into the self storage place who's sign you just ran over, I guess it would be time for new wheels and springs

jonebone

LOL @ the wheel *****

And since when am I giving advice? Its people like you that tell people what to do with their money and dictate that if you don't do things "by the book" then you are stupid / a ricer / ghetto. I'm just sharing my experience with the community, that's all. Take it for what its worth.

You also advised me against getting my wheels. Yet apparently a bunch of people liked them:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums...37256

(I know how to dig up old posts too)

I also don't claim to be a "pro", but I have done all of my own work to my vehicle. Thats more than a lot of people can say.

And for the record, I've drank maybe 5 times since the new year and have only been "drunk" once or twice. I consider that accident a wake up call, and I find that I enjoy life much better without getting plastered every weekend. I've also shared my experience with people that have gotten DUIs, in hopes of preventing them. In retrospect, I consider that accident a blessing (no charges came from it, still @ 0 pts) as my life is now better than ever

You should be a politician. I see you are already good at attacking a person's character (and completely irrelevant experiences) to try to sway the general public. Hooray for New Yorkers

IT GUY: I got my car back with 4 SI wheels and completely redone suspension. I made the upgrade about 1 month AFTER getting my car back.

Type X

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonebone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LOL @ the wheel *****

And since when am I giving advice? Its people like you that tell people what to do with their money and dictate that if you don't do things "by the book" then you are stupid / a ricer / ghetto. I'm just sharing my experience with the community, that's all. Take it for what its worth.

You also advised me against getting my wheels. Yet apparently a bunch of people liked them:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums...37256

(I know how to dig up old posts too)

I also don't claim to be a "pro", but I have done all of my own work to my vehicle. Thats more than a lot of people can say.

And for the record, I've drank maybe 5 times since the new year and have only been "drunk" once or twice. I consider that accident a wake up call, and I find that I enjoy life much better without getting plastered every weekend. I've also shared my experience with people that have gotten DUIs, in hopes of preventing them. In retrospect, I consider that accident a blessing (no charges came from it, still @ 0 pts) as my life is now better than ever

You should be a politician. I see you are already good at attacking a person's character (and completely irrelevant experiences) to try to sway the general public. Hooray for New Yorkers

IT GUY: I got my car back with 4 SI wheels and completely redone suspension. I made the upgrade about 1 month AFTER getting my car back.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Maybe I'll run for Mayor.

Hellzcivic

I would say you got lucky, good for you. I dropped mine an inch on HFP and DID need an alignment. Granted, it was not off by much, but when I am paying $800 for Goodyear Eagle 1 tires, I want everything perfect.

COMplex.

I only read the first post because I'm too lazy to read the rest.

Anyway... After lowering my car on Tein SuperStreets and SPC camber arms, I took the car to my local Honda dealership 1000 miles later. (I'm lazy)

I used wood planks to get it on the alignment rack, and me and my friend that works there did my alignment. I didn't have much tire wear either, but once we got it on and dialed in, we laughed for a bit, because NOTHING was in spec.

I had like -6º of camber, my toe was terrible... An alignment is DEFINITELY A GOOD IDEA. Don't do things half ***... Don't eyeball **** either.