civicgsr

Normally, I race my 'street modified' '94 hatchback and my '07 Si is my daily driver. This past weekend, it was raining and cold making the worn out Azenis on my hatchback a bad choice. I opted to run my '07.

The day ended up being much drier and warmer than the weather predicted so I had a good chance to see how well it would perform.

A bit of history here, I've been autocrossing for 11 years and have done very well with it. I feel that my impression is based on how the car really feels and not on lack of skill. Also, I have the "Summer Tire" tires on my Si.

First, the drive by wire sucks...badly. It's not that big a deal for daily driving but it was horrifying on the track. After the first couple of gates, the throttle became veeeery lazy. I had to anticipate when I needed throttle and lean into it early. Ridiculous! Oh yeah, the rev hang was a little spooky in a few situations...grrr...

In the immortal words of Tiff Needel, this car understeeeers, understeeeeers, understeeeers. For part of the course, it was fun. Nothing like throwing a car into a turn with wreckless abandon and knowing the rear end won't wash out. (running with VSA off).

The steering is nothing short of awesome. It took me a few runs to get the hang of how fast the steering really is. Nothing like twitching the wheel to get through a slolom. The only thing I've ever felt was better was the Mitsu EVO. (13.0:1 ratio on the EVO compared to the 13.6:1 on the Si....I believe STi's are still 15:1 or in that area).

I've said it before...the stock brakes are decent for day to day use, but if you actually want to do some spirited driving...you need something better.

Having and LSD is awesome....so I really don't have to say much about that. I believe I was getting "light" on the inside front tire as I could feel the diff "slipping".

Overall, with my bone stock '07, I did very well...in fact, I was very pleased with my times.

If I ever turn this into my autocrosser, I would need to be able to resolve the issue with the throttle. After that, a good set of tires, brakes and some minor suspension modifications to help balance the car. For now, I'll keep eating Corvettes with my hatchback .

Count Blah

Nice, if you think the FG/FA platform is fun at an autocross, get it out to a road course to really see it shine.

-Todd

Nexx

I'm not at all surprised to see the DBW throttle being an issue. The throttle response difference from the Integra to the Civic was night and day. *Sigh* It feels like ages since cable. I'm curious to see how DBW is on the Type-R.

K5^

I was under the impression that the fd,s had throttle by cable.

vladd

^doesn't the ctr come with a cable throttle?

civicgsr

I have no doubt! With the minor tweaks to the suspension and brakes, it would be a blast on the track. The DBW wouldn't be as big an issue.

civicgsr

Driving my B18C equipped hatchback, naturally with a throttle cable, the next day was a big shock after having adapted to the DBW the day before. Crazy. I'm sure the K20 with a throttle cable is much more fun...not to say that it isn't fun but damn....do what I tell you to do!!!

Nexx

FD2 is DBW.

FijiBlueFG2

When is Honda going to realize that most people don't buy SIs and CTRs for their fuel economy

2008fijibluesi

Believe it or not, I still think we (tuners of SIs) are the minority among Si owners. 75% of the SIs I see around here are toolbags that have no clue what they're driving. You beep and wave at them and they have no idea why.

FijiBlueFG2

Actually, that is quite true. I saw a 45ish yr old conservatively-dressed Middle-Eastern looking lady driving a rallye red 07 fg2 the other day. All I could think is..."Why?"

judgeDredd

I usually run my crx in ssm but there have been many times that it was unavailable for what ever reason, and i run my DD 2008 civic Si sedan its lowered so i run in ST with 225/45/17s. I love to autox my SI it really is a great car. The ABS bothers me a little but it also allows me to get on the brakes as hard as i want without worrying about locking them up which i have done in my crx. I do get alot of tire rollover in the front that a little camber would help but besides that its a great platform.

vladd

it's just a civic.

FijiBlueFG2

Its a 6pd, high-revving, premium-fuel-requiring, poor-man's-sports-car Civic. Its not a "Lazy Sunday, crusing through town" kind of car.

And Rallye Red, of all colors. Why would this lady choose the Si over a more "regular" car, such as an r18 Civic, Accord, Camry, possibly even a BMW or Merc, etc?

I guess what I am saying is that the Si is directed towards a specific part of the market, and when I see someone who doesn't fit the description of that part of the market... I want to know what made her choose that specific vehicle.

vladd

still just a civic . it's the slowest car out of its class, it's not exactly a "sports car."

FijiBlueFG2

What class is that, exactly?

Among NA 2.0L 4cyls it is one of the quickest, if not THE quickest.

I don't agree with putting FI and NA in the same class. If you're going to do that, you might as well put v6 and v8s in the same class.

i-VTEC_DOHC

i dont mean to be racist or stereotypical in any way, but around here, mercedes, bmw, audi, etc. are typically driven by middle eastern people

vladd

i consider cars to be in the same class if they cost a similar amount and appeal to similar types of drivers. when someone considers an si they usually look at other cars in its price range too.

as for the lady driving the si that you saw, maybe she just liked the color? my sister bought a supersonic blue gsr back in the day cuz of the color; she couldn't care less about what kind of motor it had in it and had no desire to modify it

FijiBlueFG2

Same here. I'd say, Mercedes, Range Rover, and Ferrari are the three most popular among that crowd.

One night I was driving home, and I'm going around this bend, I see a newer Ferarri which had Dale Earnhardt'd into a wall, with a brand new Range Rover pulled up behind it. Must be nice to be rich.

Its not a stereotype if its true. No matter what the liberal media wants you to believe.

She could have bought an r18 if she likes the color. Why an Si?

You cant go by price range.

tercel95

Why can't you go buy price range? I mean that is completely logical, I have a budget of 25k, lets see what new car I can get for that money... I mean lets face it the WRX, Cobalt SS, and Mazdaspeed 3 seriously outperform the Si...

So why buy the Si? It will win the most important race to some people, the race to 200,000 miles... At least when you buy a Honda, you know it will last for a very long time... 260+ turbocharged horsepower does you no good when your car is blown up on the side of the road...

You can buy a new Si drive and mod the crap out of it for 10 years and sell it to some 17-19 year old kid with 100k on it, just like the generations of Si's before this one...

FijiBlueFG2

What I should have said was..."You cannot use price range as a means of determining a car's class". There are cars in much different classes that happen to be in the same price range, and therefore should not be compared to the same standard.

And you take the FI systems off of these cars and what do you have?

The Mazda 3 is a 2.3L, 156hp vehicle. It has a larger engine, weighs 200lbs more, and has much less power. The 2.0L version has even less power.

The Impreza is a 2.5L, 170hp vehicle. It has a much larger engine, weighs 300lbs more, and has arguably 10hp or so less. It does have a solid torque standing, and AWD however.

The Cobalt is a 2.2L, 155hp engine. Again, larger engine, less power. It only weights roughly the same as a Civic Si. And it is much uglier, I should mention.

The Civic Si, already having a smaller engine than all of these cars, is then compared to the FI version of these engines? How does that make any sense? (Granted, in some of the examples, such as the Cobalt, the FI version has a slightly smaller displacement than the NA version. However, in each case, the engine size is at least 2.0L)

To say that that Si is the "slowest car in its class", is simply wrong. If anything, it is, "too quick to be in the class it should be in".

judgeDredd

you guys have hijacked this guys thread for your own discussion that's not very neighborly lol.

PostIt

This guy is king of useless info. You should work for car and driver. I have an 07 Si and daily it. The car is slow as heck and is by no means a race car. Sure it takes corners nice and omg it has a 6 speed but it is a civic for crying out loud. I hate when people ask me to race, or have any mods?!! No!! I dont i prefer to save my money for better things instead of dumping it into a civic. Morons like you make people like me hate driving an Si. Maybe people prefer something other than base model and a little more pep so it can merge easily into heavy traffic, or like a previous poster said.. for the color.

FijiBlueFG2

You clearly did not read anything I said in the post, which you actually quoted for some reason.

If you buy a car based on color, you have bigger problems than the scope of this thread allows for, and should probably not waste your time on an automotive tech website.

vladd

read much?

do you honestly think that the potential buyers looking at the si, also look at those base models that you mentioned? really? i'm willing to bet that most people don't; people who consider the si also consider cars such as the ms3, wrx, etc. the cars you mentioned are more in the r18 civic's class, not the si's.