JumpinJackFlash

I'm new to this site and although fairly mechanical, do not know these Hondas very well and I am hoping a sharp tech advisor or someone can steer me in the right direction.

I've owned this 2003 Civic for the past 4 months. It has 120kms (approx 75k miles) on it. Over the last couple of months the performance seemed a bit "lazy" for lack of a better word but not terrible. It was better when I first bought it, pretty responsive with light throttle even at low RPMs 2 - 3k. Gas mileage has always been excellent.

The other night I go to jump in it and the battery is stone dead. I charged the battery for a few minutes from another vehicle. I hit the starter and it immediately starts without problem. After approx. 30 sec to a minute the motor starts making this TERRIBLE LOUD OBNOXIOUS noise coming from it so I immediately shut it down. I let it sit for a bit and crossed my fingers as I restarted the car. Again, it run normally for about 30 seconds or so and started doing the same thing. Should note that while it is making this noise, the noise may stop briefly (1 second or so) and then resume.

Stuff I've Done to Identify the Problem:
(1) I immediately thought of mechanical bearing failure so I took the alternator off and had an Auto electric shop spin it up on a test jig with belt tension on it to see if bearing were shot - it tested fine.
(2) Completely recharged battery and took the power steering belt off and started motor - noise still present so rule out power steering pump
(3) ran motor without rad cap b/c it seemed like steaming from rad cap when this terrible noise was occurring. Noise remained. Also note: no bubbling in rad, rad level is right up. I was also thinking head gasket failure pressurizing rad. Don't think so. Coolant does not seem contaminated.
(4) Next I was thinking well, I HAVE TO CHECK THE TIMING BELT. I just could not ignore this possibility so I have it ripped apart right now. Everything looks ok in there. Previous owner stated that belt was just replaced at 110kms. Belt does look like new. I was thinking maybe tensioner pulley? or water pump?
(5) I stopped for tonight so I need to pull the water pump to see if the bearing packed it in. Just spinning it by hand still bolted in, it seems fine.

Since it is apart I'm going to throw a new water pump in it and a new belt.
Next I guess I will do a compression check and take valve cover off to do a visual inspection of things.

Any ideas? Could it be something as simple as the AC compressor ( it seems to spin fine by hand). Just trying to make a connection between the dead battery and the noise although the two could be coincidental.

I wish I knew more about these cars but hopefully someone knowledgeable can help out.

Thanks A Lot

Kevin

crazyheadrush

Is there any check engine?

theineffable

what happens if you remove the a/c belt then start the car?

It Wasn't Me

That's where I'd look next, too.



Is the noise coming from the driver's side of the engine bay, or can you tell where it's coming from?

How did the battery die? Did you leave something on?

JumpinJackFlash

A few days prior to this the "Maintenance Required" light has started to flash on start-up. I did read though that this may just be a "scheduled" maintenance reminder.

Is there a separate check engine light? If so, I haven't noticed anything like that.

I wish I would have ran it without the serpentine belt on the alternator before taking it apart, I'll have to do that once the timing belt and everything is back together.

Not sure how/why the battery drained, I don't think I left anything on although I did notice that the interior light bulb (center) bulb looks a little dark. I switched it to the "off" position but its possible that could have stayed on ( although I know I never touched the switch) prior to this so it should have went off when the door closed.....
Once its back together I'll run it without the alternator/AC belt to rule out the AC compressor.

I think if it was something catastrophic in the valve train etc. The noise should be there constantly shouldn't it?

On a secondary note can anyone explain why the loss of performance? I'm throwing a set of plugs and air cleaner in it at the same time. Seems when its cold it's pretty peppy but when it warms up its kinda doggy.

Anyways, I appreciate the input, I'll report back my findings.

Kevin

JumpinJackFlash

By the way, the noise is definitely coming from the drivers side engine bay for sure. Almost seemed like a cloud of greyish dust, not thick or a huge cloud or anything but certainly a slight cloud of something coming from drivers side in and around the alternator/power steering area.

Don't think it was smoke, no odor to it or anything and it dissipated in the air fairly quickly

JumpinJackFlash

Actually, now that I think of it, there is some evidence of some light oily substance down on the plastic splash shield under the alternator.

Could it be the compressor even though the AC is turned off? The clutch should just free-wheel without the AC on shouldn't it?

Last tie I drove it the AC was working fine without any issues, nice and cold....

Thanks again, any help is good help....

Cheers,

Kevin

It Wasn't Me

You need to reset that.
Yes...

A is your MIL. B is just the Maintenance Required indicator.


Has the battery / charging indicator ever come on? (left of the MIL) Any other weird gauge cluster problems? Flashing lights of any kind?

Yes. If there were something wrong with the cylinder head, you'd hear it no matter how long (or short) the car was running.

They seem to have a little more pep at start-up due to the idle being higher. Once the engine has warmed and the idle has dropped where it should be, it'll seem a little sluggish. If you were referring to cold as in cold air, cars naturally respond better to it than hot air, although I wouldn't expect it to have so much (adverse) affect as to a "drop in performance" due to warm air. Our cars are slow no matter how you cut it.

It Wasn't Me

The A/C compressor (or relevant lines) could have a small leak. Does it look or smell like motor oil, or something else?

The clutch shouldn't be dragging at all. While you have everything apart, you should inspect the clutch for wear, discoloration, or peeling. If it looks bad, is dragging or has excessive play, replace the clutch set.

JumpinJackFlash

Just an Update, I'm still waiting on parts before I button up the timing belt etc.

No there has been no funny cluster readings and no, neither the engine light or charging indicator have come on.

I think I have found the problem though, even with no ignition on in the car as soon as I loose fit the battery cables to the battery the AC clutch pulley in gauges and there is a 4 amp draw on the battery. That explains the dead battery. Why would the AC clutch assembly in gauge with no ignition on?

I'm sure that oil on the splash shield has to be from the compressor. With the clutch pulley on the AC in gauged, the compressor feels a little rough when I turn it by hand. I'm sure something has happened to the compressor, not sure why it would draw juice with no key on though..........

If thats what it is for sure I will have to disconnect the AC at the wiring harness connector to drive it so the AC clutch does not in gauge.

I do realize motors run better cold with cold air etc. but there seems to be too big of a difference, the motor is not over heating or anything though. Anyone had this issue of the AC in gauging as soon as there is battery power?
Any other thoughts?

Thanks.....

Kevin

JumpinJackFlash

Oh, and the oil does not seem like it is engine oil. The engine stays nice and clean.....gotta be compressor.

I may need a wiring schematic for this vehicle to troubleshoot why the AC comes on right away. ANyone know where I could find one?

Cheers,

Kevin

JumpinJackFlash

Thanks for the info so far guys, really appreciate it.

Got snooping around the fuse box last night and pulled a large relay. Re-installed it and instantly now the AC clutch no longer energizes and closes as soon as the battery is connected, so for some reason the relay contacts were remaining closed.....I'll throw a new relay at it too.......

Thanks again,

Kevin

It Wasn't Me

A faulty relay was going to be my next suggestion.

Anyhow .. check your Private Messages.

JumpinJackFlash

Thanks "It Wasn't Me" in advance....

Kevin

JumpinJackFlash

How smooth is the AC compressor supposed to feel with the pulley engaged and turning it by hand? I'm pretty sure this one is toast......could even possibly feel a bit of scraping ......maybe? Likely a lot of scraping with belt tension on it.

Cheers,

Kevin

It Wasn't Me

It should have some drag, but if it's excessive, it's toast. It shouldn't be noisy, either. Something could be caught in it (sand, grit, etc) or it's just worn out. Do you use the A/C very often?

Email sent, BTW.

JumpinJackFlash

The AC definitely have some drag, and seemingly, more in some spots through rotation. I have been using the AC somewhat lately, due to hot muggy weather, but not constantly or anything.

Who knows though, the car is 7 years old and during the cold winter months the AC is never on. Many say to run it periodically to keep the seals lubed but I didn't own it before this summer.

Weird though, when I last drove it the AC worked fine with no noise when I last shut the car off.

I'll have to check my e-mail right away.......thanks "It Wasn't Me" ( My favorite expression BTW) Hahaha....gets me out of a lot of tight jambs......... !!

Kevin