llmercll

Hello!

I recently bought myself a 2001 Civic HX 5 speed and am very happy with it (the mpg is amazing), but I'm having a bit of clutch trouble.

1. The clutch releases VERY high up. I'm guessing the clutch is just worn, but don't know. Is there anything I can do to make the clutch disengage a little farther down? I'm used to mechanical clutch linkages and don't know if it could be related to the hydraulics.

2. Big sqeak when I press the clutch pedal. The noise is coming from near the transmission, not the interior pedal.

3. Clutch brake fluid is very "milky", while brake brake fluid is very clean.

4. Sometimes sitting in neutral I hear a whirring noise. It's very faint. If I press the clutch pedal, the noise disappears. throw-out bearing?

I've never had a hydraulic clutch, and it isn't slipping (yet anyways), but am expecting to need a clutch job in the near future. The transmission shifts fine and doesn't make any strange noises that I'm aware of.

I'm wondering if there is anything I can do now about any of the mentioned issues,

thanks!

anibis

A high bite point does usually mean the clutch is worn but it may take awhile until it starts slipping. You can adjust the rod the pedal connects to and get it biting lower, some say not to mess with it though.

Slave cylinder probably needs cleaned, not a hard job, google. Honda clutches like to squeak...

I'm not sure what would cause the fluid to be milky, I'd flush it and see if it comes back.

The throw-out bearing would make noise when the pedal is pressed down. Transmission bearings make noise when the is clutch out, its most likely a input-shaft bearing, very common failure w/Honda MT's. Replacing transmission bearings isn't a huge job, some shops will make you think it is though. These MT's are very easy to work on, the AT's are a nightmare. I would have it done w/the clutch.

llmercll

Thanks for the reply,

Driving with a high bite point won't damage the flywheel right? Only if I notice slipping should I replace it?

I'll clean and flush the cylinder and see if that does anything.

I sure hope it isn't a transmission issue =/

thanks again!

cavic

yea seems like your clutch is pretty worn out but has some life in it, and the noise is most defiantly the input shaft bearing inside the trans, like said above, isnt the hardest job but it does require opening the trans, so if your not mechanically friendly, i would alteast remove the trans, and take it to a shop to have them do all the internal work
p.s. the noise will only get worse, eventually to where the noise gets very loud and annoying when speeding up most especially in 1st and 2nd
replace it along with the clutch when it starts to slip or sooner if you can..

richardsk

I have the exact same problems so post your fixes when you get it rectified. Thanks.

It Wasn't Me

The clutch self-adjusts to compensate for wear. I wouldn't mess with the pedal unless it's out of adjustment.

When measured and adjusted correctly, the height should be just under eight inches. (7.8 according to the manual)

Pedal stroke should be about 5.3 inches. +/- .2

You're better off just leaving it alone if it hasn't been played with before. Here, read this. Adjusting it won't do anything, anyway.

How many miles are on the car? Does the clutch slip at all?

Been covered many, many times. Click here for info.

Reverse-bleed the line and change the fluid.

Input shaft bearing. The only way to replace is it to remove the transmission, split it open, blah blah. The bearing is cheap but it's a bit of a PITA to replace it. Replace it once you've decided it's time to do the clutch. There are a couple threads floating around with part numbers when you're ready for all that.






Please Search before you make a thread. Nearly everything has been covered at one point.

Good luck with it.

llmercll

Thanks a lot for the replies. I'll probably be changing the clutch and input shaft bearing once the clutch begins to slip.

What I've noticed the more I've driven the car is that in 1st and 2nd gear, typically going slow I can hear what sounds almost like a baseball card on a bicycle tire type noise. If I press the clutch pedal, it goes away. it sounds almost identical to what cavic described, is it likely the input shaft bearing or a more serious issue?

thanks!

It Wasn't Me

If it's already rattling then I wouldn't wait any longer to fix it... unless you want to replace even more parts.

llmercll

Yeah it is definitely rattling. It's much worse going uphill and most apparent at 1-2k rpm. I will try and record the sound.

I was thinking of changing the MTF and seeing how long I can go on the clutch. What would likely happen if I kept driving it until fall or next spring? I thought a bearing is just a bearing, could it really wreck other parts?

thanks!

llmercll

After doing some reading I've learned the bearing can do some serious damage if left unchecked, ouch. Metal shavings damaging other bearings, or even bearing blowing completely.

I'm going to make a new thread dedicated to my ISB woes,

thanks for the information everyone

llmercll

I'm almost certain the ISB on my honda 5 speed is going. It makes a whirring sound in neutral with the clutch in (pedal not depressed) and some rattling in 1st and 2nd gear when accelerating.

I want to take care of it as soon as possible to prevent further transaxle damage and hoping to get it done within a month or two. The problem is I have no idea how to go about changing it, and cannot find any specific guides on the problem. It seems most people end up just "rebuilding" the transmission.

Is a "rebuild" just a term used for any work done inside the transmission, or does it specifically mean new bearings, gears, and everything? I figure if I'm inside the transmission I should just replace everything but the cogs(unless they are worn), no? Surely if one bearing is going the others can't be far off?

I really just don't know how to tackle this problem, I'm not even 100% it's just the ISB and not others as well. I don't want to open up the transaxle replace one bearing and find that when I re install it, the noise is still there. At the same time I don't want to spend more on parts and labor than I need to.

Thanks for reading and hoping for some good advice

It Wasn't Me

Ah, yeah sorry, I didn't reply in time.


Indeed, if left unchecked the bearing can self-destruct allowing debris to float around, and allowing the end of the shaft to slop around causing further damage to everything, etc. etc.


As noted earlier; if it's already rattling, change it ASAP. (and hope nothing else is in need of repair)

It Wasn't Me

You'll know which bearings need to be replaced by spinning them. If there is excessive noise, damage, or they otherwise do not spin freely and smoothly, they need to be replaced.


To replace the bearing you have to pull the transmission and split it open - there's simply no other way to do it.


It's not a terrible difficult job, it's just time consuming. (especially if you're never done it before.)


If you have tools and are mechanically inclined, by a Helm's manual to guide you. Product number 61S5C01 is the best one, IMO. Click here to get an idea of what you're after. You can occasionally find a used copy online (craigslist, ebay, etc) if you don't want to pay full-retail price. And, trust me, that is the manual you want to buy. Forget about Haynes and all that other junk.



Side note: I'm merging your two threads together. I don't think two for the same problem is really necessary.

llmercll

Thanks for the reply.

I've done a clutch before so pulling the transmission to me, at least skill wise, will be the easy part. I understand I'll have to split the transmission open, then I believe I will be looking at two "shafts" with cogs and bearings on them.

It's from that point I have no idea what to do, haha!

I already have a Haynes manual, and it's pretty much worthless. Remove this, remove that, installation is reverse of removal, it's a little ridiculous. $50 for the helms manual looks like a good buy, I saw some service manuals for $100.

I guess I will be tearing it open, taking a lot of pictures, inspecting everything, and sliding bearings for wear. What needs to replacing I will decide at that point.

If I need multiple bearings and or/gaskets do they sell "kits" that include everything?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par.../N-jfds1Z6o2tw

That just looks like syncros and cogs, which I shouldn't need to replace at this point.

thanks!

llmercll

I'd like to change the gear oil right now, should I go with the honda MTF or something like Redline?

From what I've read, opinions are split on whether to use honda or aftermarket oil =/

anibis

I'd stick with OEM bearings for the transmission, they will most likely last the rest of the car's life. You won't know what bearings are bad until you get it open, I'm sure the ISB is the one making noise but there may be others that are noisy when you spin them by hand. There are a total of 5 bearings needed for the job, along with a few seals and a filter, about $150 from majestic. You would need to examine the syncro's/cogs to determine if it would be wise to replace them as well, then you would be getting into more of a rebuild and the job gets more complicated. Most of the time swapping out the main shaft bearings is sufficient unless the trans has been beaten on or has 200k on it.

Here's a good video on replacing the bearings. He makes a couple errors but you can get an idea what you're in for. It's really not that bad....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yau-H4InKac


You will have to drop the subframe to get the trans out, or take it out the top, which requires removing a bunch of other stuff. It's not simple like it was on older Civic's, I'm sure you can figure it out since you've done a clutch before.


For a daily driver just use Honda MTF. It won't make the bearing any quieter (at least it didnt with mine) but maybe it will keep it from getting worse.

llmercll

Thanks for the reply and video, it helped a lot. I now have an "idea" of what I'm getting into.

You mentioned 5 bearings, is that all there is for the mainshaft? I googled majestic but didn't find much, is it a parts retailer?

Btw, the tranny does have 200k miles on it, haha! (unless it was changed prior, but I think the original car owner, who was an old lady, used the same tranny and clutch for almost 10 years)

B18C5-EH2

HERE is mainshaft page - you'll want #15 seen here:



Clutch Case - you'll want numbers 5,6,7, and 8:



Countershaft - you'll want numbers 13, and 14:



Transmission case - you'll want #13:



Differential - *optional* would be diff bearings, seen here as #5 (x2):



It's kind of hard to tell from diagrams because the end bearings on the main and counter shafts have to found on both the individual shaft diagrams AND the clutch case diagram too, but what I've listed should be:

Countershaft bearings - all three
Mainshaft bearings - both of them
Mainshaft Seal
Axle seals - both

Other optional stuff would of course be clutch kit (disc, pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing) and shift shaft seal.

All of those diagram descriptions are clickable, and then you'll have all the pricing too.

llmercll

Thats incredible, thanks so much!

llmercll

I changed the MTF, the old stuff was dirty, but not terribly bad. There were NO metal shavings which was nice.

Not surprisingly, the new oil didn't fix any sounds. Actually, it may sound a bit better in 1st and 2nd, but I think it's more a placebo thing. The idle noise is unchanged.


My clutch pedal is squeaking though, and I've tried everything I can think of to fix it. I identified it as coming from the slave cylinder, pulled it out, used some white lithium grease on the pushrod ends and fork. It's silent then for about 2-3 pushes and the squeak comes back. I took out the pushrod again, sanded it so it's smooth, and even put some duct tape over the head. Still squeaks. After driving awhile however, it is silent.

Any ideas? I'm very frustrated since I've spent time on it and seen no improvement =/

Jayvp

Same problem anyone would know a quote on how much it would be to get this problem mechanically repaired?

It Wasn't Me

For what it's worth.. it took me a few tries to get the noise to stop coming back. I don't know what I did right the last time I sprayed lithium grease on all of it.. but.. voila!












More than it's worth. You might as well just buy one that's already been rebuilt if you don't want to do the work yourself.