joezmam367

i'll post pics in a minute, but had to get towed home today.
replaced the radiator last night and the GF decided to go off without letting me burp the system.
today it died and wont start, but after looking at the normal ignition relay issue i found some interesting/ unwanted things have been splice together, fused, and i cant seem to find a wiring diagram via google for what im looking for.

hopefully somebody here can point me in the right direction and hook me up with some answers.

96 accord 2.2 non-vtech stock 5spd.
pics will be in shortly.

also, as a side note, i checked spark, fuel pump is working when i hit the key, and Ive reset the ECM via pulling fuses.

it does crank, but i don't have a way to get the battery checked because this is the daily. no other ride, so its on the charger.

these are just some random wires that were capped separately, coming out of the 6 prong plug you see above.





this harness goes back to a brown plug, if im not mistaken, it the ignition harness (i could be wrong, wiring is not my bag, mechanics is)





these go the the brown harness you see in the upper corner, no idea why fuses wouldve been wired in.

MAD_MIKE

If your car does not currently have an alarm this is most likely remnants of an old system.

That looks like the ignition harness plug, but verify that it goes to the ignition switch.
The wires sticking out of the harness are most likely added on and will not correlate with any Honda coloring schematic, if you can open up the harness loom to see where all those wires are going, then you will be able to see where the original harness was tapped into it. Fixing should be as simple as reattaching color to color on that harness.

IIRC green and blue wire color schemes are related to power doorlocks, usually ignition wiring is White, black w/yellow, yellow, and black w/white.

Yellow tapped wrapped harness if for the SRS(airbags) so don't mess with that.

joezmam367

im glad i diden't atart messing with the yellow, only what was "hacked"into. tore the top end apart, found a bent valve..... yea, not happy about that, but its a relitavily easy fix, just did the head gasket a few weeks ago, so i know its still good. ill just replace it

im going to reconnect the colors and see what happens, although the two fused wires were pulled out and PO used a twist on house connector to splice them, no ground im guessing, cuz i tried that and blew 2 15 amp fuses back to back. but i did have a random ground hanging out to the left tapped into virgin steel under the dash plastic, left of the steering wheel, reminisce of an old alarm system as well???

ill update soon, im in FL and its raining now, no garage to work in so im going to wait it out. but in other news happy birthday to me, so i got that going for me;/

MAD_MIKE

Correct, no grounds will be in the ignition switch wire harness. White should be constant(battery) 12V, the others will be ACC, IGN1, and IGN2. Starter wire will be the same color as the wire on the starter, I *think* that one is black with he yellow stripe.

joezmam367

the two fuses were not hooked together at the time this pic was taken, but when touched, the door chime goes off, so im nearly certain your assessment of there once being an alarm in place is correct.

joezmam367

is the relay pictured here for the coil in the distributer?

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

That ignition harness is like $30 at the dealership online (HondaAutomotiveParts) and/or you should be able to get one from the junkyard. I'd just replace the damn harness rather than fiddle with it.

If I'm looking at it right. That's in the ignition harness that has some smooth heatshrink covering the wires right? Goes from the ignition switch to the fusebox area?

joezmam367

Yes it is, ill be ordering one today, hopefully to be in by mid next week.
also, i rechecked spark, still good, but thought i might as well check the injectors, maybe ones clogged.
so i pulled the rail back (injectors still intact) and cranked it over a few times, got a minimal squirt from 1, so ill be cleaning those tonight with a makeshift circuit and some carb cleaner, then ill reinstall after cleaning the rail out and see what happens. i know my air flow is good.

Also put the battery on a drip charger last night, so if the issue is there's just not enough juice, i should have enough to at least get a start out of it.

joezmam367

excuse the long link, but this is what i should be looking at,
By the number 24 i dont see any number labeling the ignition harness
but some of these are discontinues. found one on ebay, althgouth im always sketch about buying electrical parts used.

Honda Automotive Parts

MAD_MIKE

That generic Bosch looking relay is something that was added for the alarm. Albeit it was used as a starter or main relay kill switch.

If the alarm install wasn't a hack job you might be able to use some butt crimp connectors to reattach the original wire(s) together.

Your link posted was for the wrong diagram.
You will most likely need #9, this is the harness that plugs directly into the ignition switch and then the main harness. Verify this is the part that has been modified and not the main harness.
35110-SV4-A11 009 001 WIRE HARNESS, IGNITION (listed)52.08 (retail)34.89

joezmam367

#9 was definitely the one that was spliced into. i take it by the looks of it, it comes with both the harnesses together. both of #9 were spliced into.
did you find this diagram on hondaautomotive too? i was looking under wiring harnesses, but this is super helpful!
i could actually use more like this lol.

on a side note, just because i saw the keys there, i only received the longer one when got my car, after trying it with the trunk lock and the backseat lock im assuming that the shorter key is for those?

THANKS MAD_MIKE!

MAD_MIKE

Nope. Majestic Honda, although it will be the same diagrams.
Look under 'Combination Switch' for that diagram. Honda has its own way of labeling components. Brake Master Cylinder/Booster is under 'Master Power'. Even same chassis will have components under different sections if you change model/sub model.
My keys are not shorter, one has a round head and the other trapezoidal.
One is a 'valet' key and will only open the doors and operate the ignition, the normal key will be able to unlock the back seat, open the trunk and glovebox. Normal/Master key will have more 'teeth' on the key where as the 'valet' key will be the basic shape.

If you need new keys cut, or are missing the normal key, I would do the following. Call up Honda of America and state you are the new owner of the car, they may ask you who the previous owner was some other questions about the vehicle and your current address to update their files. This will also allow you to call them for the factory radio code(if you ever need it). Then I would go to your local Honda dealer and tell them you need a new key for your vehicle, have your pink slip/registration(with your name/address on it) and your DL. Then they can cut you a new key, as long as the car still has its original lock set.

joezmam367

Got it started today!...briefly
Cleaned the injectors out, reinstalled, and put the new battery in. Started it up, instant white smoke out the back.
Keep in mind,I never got to burp the system, so I let it run a few minutes and pull the cap to start the process. HUGE BURPS, alright, it was a tough last run, just a lot of air, 15 minutes in, and I'm half a gallon down and still going strong with air.
I pull the dip stick, guess who's oil looks like creamy delicious coffee....yep, mine. Suspecting a warped head after doing the gasket a month ago.
I'm replace the head gasket, checking the block and sending to for machining. Any last checks I should do before rolling it apart?

I should mention, after shutting it down, it cranked over, but wouldn't start again.

As usual, hope y'all are running strong and I always appreciate what you help out with

MAD_MIKE

F22s do not need to be burped.

On the intake manifold where the thermostat lives there is a bleeder screw.
Leave the car off, open the heater valve and crack open the bleeder screw.
Keep filling the radiator while watching the stream of coolant come out of the bleeder screw, it should be a solid stream.

Or you can attach a foot long length of clear vinyl hosing to the bleeder nipple and fill the radiator, air will bleed out of the tube and you will know when you are done when the tube is only coolant and no air bubbles. Less messy this way as well.

Running the engine without properly bleeding it first can lead to a head gasket failure as the thermostat may not open due to only seeing heat from air and not actual coolant temps.

joezmam367

That's a great piece of info Mike!
Started pulling it back apart lastnight, I'll have the head out early tonight and dropping it off for machining tomorrow morning.
Going to have to look around and find out the specs for how much can be taken off without screwing up compression, or find a spaced gasket. Won't know which avenue I'll take until it's out and checked though.

Wish me luck lol, thanks again Mike

joezmam367

well, i was out of town last week so i dident get as far as i'd hoped.
finished pulling the head lastnight and found .006 in warpage, and the gasket failed shortly after im assuming.
any idea what the warp tolerance for the lower end is? i found .0015 with shims everywhere.
pulled the valves and will be lapping them after the machine shop is done with it. the valve seals were replaces a few weeks ago, so ill be keeping those if i can get them out without crushing them.

MAD_MIKE

For the head? .002 is the max that you are OK, between .002-.008" it needs to be resurfaced.
Max resurface is .008" with 3.94" head height.

joezmam367

no, I'm asking what the tolerance is for the steel block.
the head had about .006 warp in it, so that was dropped off to the machine shop last night.
but i had .0015 on the block when i checked that. I've heard they are harder to warp because they are steel, but was curious what the service limit was for it.

joezmam367

UPDATE

So, i got the head back and put it all back together, but i'm now having a issue with the main relay i believe.
no spark at the plug wires, i have to check the igniter tonight, and also, im not hearing the fuel pump kick on to prime.

Ive read quite a few threads that point both of those things at the main relay, but figured i would ask here given that i already had this thread started. I've also read that you can still have spark if the relay is bad, so i dont know which is true.

other than that, i got the new wiring harness in, realized that the clutch switch (yellow 2 prong connector) had been jumped, and may just leave it like that. but i also have a grey 2 prong conncter (of which I'll get a pic and post later) that i cant find a connection for. both of these are on the driver side under the dash.

Any and all help appreciated

MAD_MIKE

Block is aluminum with cast iron liners.
.004 is the service limit.
With the changes in the wiring harness I would inspect the ignition switch itself for wear/slop. Main relay has two relays. One provides power to the injectors/resistor box and ECM. Second relay is to provide power for fuel pump priming. Try jiggling the key to see if that affects anything. Pull it off and inspect the switch for wear. Check the ECM and Fuel Pump fuses are not blown.

Verify battery voltage from the switch to the relay.

joezmam367

so, i got it to run.... for a while anyways.
went out for a test run around the neighborhood and had a major malfunction.

noticed the cel blink, when to pull over and everything shut off
poped the hood, and the positive terminal was melted completely off.

cleaned all the grounds(that i could find), and double checked them ( but i feel im missing one to the thermostat housing?) have the bolt, but no extra cables hanging around.

EDIT- the bolt on the thermostat housing was for a bracket that supported the engine loom....smh lol

can ran alright i guess, although im not sure what the difference in sound would be with the head shaved.

cel is still blinking, but im not feeling any heat from any wires.
so i jumped the blue connector to get the codes from the ecu, and im only getting a 65, assuming im reading them right, that would be a secondary o2 sensor, which i already knew was bad.

i have to be missing something, and im at my wits end here.

any help is appreciated mike, seeing as you seem to be my primary support system in this thread.


it will start and run now, but the cel is continuing to blink, which i've read is a big deal, like terminal failure in the near future bad, so im worried about doing another test drive.

also, after the terminal melting, i had no blown fuses, inside or out.

joezmam367

as a side note, my oil is still a little milky.
is it normally that way until the oil is change a few times if the head has failed?

tim73

If youre saying the positive terminal for teh battery comletely melted off...that would indicate and extremely hi current. A direct short...would cause that. Possibly, in the starter...as the rest of the electrical system is protected by fuses. But there is supposed to be a ground on the tstat housing. Dould check you didnt miss it. Then another behind the block on the drivers side. There's three bolts on the tstat housing...two attach it to the head...and the third...on the left side are for the ground.

poorman212

The Op has a 96 (5th gen) Accord......please explain more on where you are going with the statement above?

tim73

I'm saying there's supposed to be a ground on the tstat housing.