Spunkymanker

I have a ''93 Accord LX 4cyl, and recently I had the oil changed "professionally". After leaving, everything seemed fine, but a short time later, I could hear what sounded like a faint knock, but it was still running fine. The next day, the car isn''t running much at all. It started missing badly, and I couldn''t get it over about 10mph, it just didn''t have the guts to do it. I parked it, and replaced the fuel filter, but that didn''t help. Drove it a short distance further, and now it won''t drive at all. When you start the engine, it will run VERY rough for a few seconds, then die. Sometimes it will run for a few minutes, but little more. It sounds like it''s missing. I checked engine codes, and it reports 5,9, and 14 (MAP sensor error, CYL 1 sensor error, and IAC sensor error). I tested voltages and continuity on all three sensors, and all voltages are correct and there are no shorts. I was unable to artificially put vacuum to test the MAP sensor fully so far (I don''t have the tools) Anyone have any idea what might be going wrong? Where to check next? (will check coil later tonight)

Maxx PARANOiA

I know this may be a dumb question, but is there still oil in the crankcase? I mean no insult by asking this, but sometimes the answers are right in our faces and we miss them...

StimpyBoy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Maxx PARANOiA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know this may be a dumb question, but is there still oil in the crankcase? I mean no insult by asking this, but sometimes the answers are right in our faces and we miss them...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would check this as well ASAP. It sounds like the car degraded in performance, and if there isn't any oil in the engine... Well......

If there isn't any oil in there, that shop is getting you a new engine

Spunkymanker

Yes, the plug in the oil pan was loose, but it only leaked out a quart or so, it was just below the 'add' line when I checked it earlier.. I thought the same thing..

SlammedAccord96

Do you know what type of oil they put in? Maybe its too thick? I'd drain it all out, replace the plug, gasket, and filter (only honda OEM) and put in the oil recommended in your owner's manual. That's my guess, that they put in the wrong wieght of oil.

Spunkymanker

I will check the receipt and see what they used later.
However, I did test the coil, and it fails resistance tests miserably -infinite on all circuits. I will be replacing that tomorrow.

Riceburner247

iTrader: (1)

Keep us posted.

IVI

missing / sputtering / misfiring is related to fuel and spark delivery. have this checked ou.

and leaking that much oil is defintly not a good thing. get your problems fixed asap.

oil is the blood of your motor.

Spunkymanker

We removed the coil and tested it on another similar accord, which ran perfectly with the coil from our car, so I don't think the coil is the problem. Not sure why it failed tests, might just have tested it wrong.

Someone mentioned that it could be something wrong with the distributor.. we may check that out, but that's a lot more work, so it'll be a bit, and we're going to do some more diagnostics..
We have tightened the plug in the oil pan, and that's no longer a problem, and it's just barely low on oil now.

any more ideas?

91hybridAccord

Maybe they overfilled it with oil. One quart over can cause serious engine damage.

Spunkymanker

Unfortunately, I can't quite tell how much they put in, other than it's a little low right now. What kind of damage would that cause? Any way I could check on it to see if that's a cause?

SlammedAccord96

I would take it back to the shop and explain what is going on. You shouldn't be the one wasting hours of your time diagosing a problem THEY made. I know you guys are probably thinking "if they can't get an oil change right, how do you expect them to diagnose the car"? I would just talk to the owner of the shop, and tell him he still has a chance to make good on this situation, and let him work on it. I am just afraid that they did overfill it and you have internal damage. Well good luck with it !

IVI

overfilling of the oil will cause the oil to foam. because the crank will be slapping the oil. imagine being in the ocean and slapping the water with your hand. imagine your motor doing that to the oil.

Spunkymanker

We did call the shop that changed the oil, and they checked out the vehicle (oil levels, plug, just the stuff they worked on) and said that there was no problem with what they did and it's not their fault, and would do no more.

Spunkymanker

update:
We replaced the fuel pump with a known good, and still having the same problem..
distributor is next..

david90

I think the shop did something to your car so you'll come back to them to have it fix. I've seen it on the news. Is it a coniencident that your car runs badly after they changed your oil?

When you mean "short time" after you leave, how long is exactly short time?

Spunkymanker

They did 'inspect' the vehicle, and they told us there was nothing they could do.. didn't even offer to take it back and diagnose it.. Had it changed at a Texaco Quick oil change...

Update: No problem with the distributor.. Giving up and taking it to a shop.


Modified by Spunkymanker at 2:51 AM 6/13/2004

Spunkymanker

took it into a shop - the camshaft is broken.
sound like too much oil?

Calean007

O.k. here's what you do. Get an itemized statement from the shop where you took it to where they told you the camshaft is broken. Make sure it shows the diagnosis, parts, and labor to replace it. Then go back to that Texaco station and speak with the manager. If they won't listen, ask for the owner of the place and explain the following.

Tell them that it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out that the car was working fine, until after your shop changed the oil. Tell them that a jury will be able to pick that situation out too. Then propose that they pay for the repairs to your car.

See what they say, and to be safe, have a lawyer look into this. If anything, they can say the same thing, but on lawyer letterhead. Gives a little more impact...

earthworm

I agree with the oil change shop, their work may well have been shoddy, but there is no way on this planet that the oil change had anything to with the broken camshaft.

Your car was manufactured with a "tiny" flaw in the camshaft casting - probably a hidden stress crack that no-one could see during the process. Maybe only one from a thousand camshafts is inspected for cracks. That number may increase dynamically if Honda keeps any defect records going back ten years... But do not hold the breath awaiting this event !

I have also heard about this happening to some others..

Calean007

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earthworm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree with the oil change shop, their work may well have been shoddy, but there is no way on this planet that the oil change had anything to with the broken camshaft.

Your car was manufactured with a "tiny" flaw in the camshaft casting - probably a hidden stress crack that no-one could see during the process. Maybe only one from a thousand camshafts is inspected for cracks. That number may increase dynamically if Honda keeps any defect records going back ten years... But do not hold the breath awaiting this event !

I have also heard about this happening to some others..</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, but come on. That's an awfully big coincidence that it happened right after taking it in to have the oil change, then get down the road 15 minutes later and it craps out.

Spunkymanker

We're still trying to get it back running well, here's the latest:

I'm not too good with camshaft lingo, but one of the lobes was mostly broken off of it, which bent two valves and jammed them closed. The shop we took the car to tried to have the camshaft machined, but it was a no-go, so they replaced the camshaft entirely. They also replaced spark plugs. They re-assembled everything, said it was working fine, and told us to come pay for it and pick up the car. We asked them to smog the car while they had it (since it's due for it in Cali) and when we got to the shop a few hours later they had paperwork saying that it passed smog check without any problems.

We came in, and paid for the repairs, and they went to start the car for us to bring it to the front door, and it wouldn't start.. (just turned over with the starter and never fired) they fiddled with it for 10-15 minutes, then put gas in it and it started right up. They drove it around the block, and tweaked it.. drove it, and tweaked it (while we (including 3 small children) hung around in the 95 degree non-AC office for about 45 minutes.. They then told us that it wasn't safe and we couldn't take it home yet. They said that it ran great under power, but at stop signs it died, and had to be restarted every time. We were unhappy, but they promised us it was a simple fix, and it would be done the next day. We've been calling every day for a week now, and get the same answer each time - "We're still working on it, but we don't know what's wrong now. We'll call you when it's ready"
So now, we're out $1150 for the repairs, and we STILL don't have a car to drive.. *sigh*

Qfactor

sounds to me that you have bent valves is the same as a broken t-belt valves stop but crank and pistons are still rotating. the broken camshaft could be from lack of lubrication to that one specific cam journal/bearing I've seen this happened clogged galleys or very low on oil in system or none. keep us posted.

Spunkymanker

They did replace two bent valves, while they were replacing the camshaft.
The shop worked on it for just over a week, and called us yesterday to say that they gave up, we can have the car back, and they don't know what's wrong..

It doesn't die when you stop now, but it runs really rough at idle, and they adjusted the idle up very high.. (if it idles at a normal idle, it dies). It drives fine under power, and there are no wierd noises anymore - but only under power.

We're taking it to a different shop soon..