Korman

Sometimes I am completely amazed by all the BS I see on these forums - and not by the newbies, but by people who have been on here since forever and should know better.

That is why I propose we make a list of common misconceptions and even a few things that are debated but are actually true. In order to prevent arguments, provide links to factual data where possible.

I'll get it started off.

Presumption - Del Sols are heavy

Myth - A del Sol's curb weight is 2301 lbs. Compare that to other EGs and you will find it right in the middle of their weights. Also bare in mind that the del Sol comes with a convertible top (we can compare that with a sunroof), power windows, power mirrors, better seats... etc. Basically it's equivalent to an Ex/Si, and, therefore has a similar weight.

Presumption - an LS is faster than a B16A (this has become a common thought lately) *Edit - specifically an ENTIRELY STOCK B16 vs. LS*

Myth (with considerations) - A B16A makes anywhere between 20-40 HP more than an LS. It also has shorter gears, which, coupled to its longer rev band, offers greater wheel torque than a LS.

Recently, people seem to have gotten this idea that putting a B16 trans on an LS will make it faster than a B16. This is only true from 0-20 MPH, where the LS will accelerate slightly harder. After 20, however, the B16 will surpass the LS. But putting a B16 trans on an LS will make it faster, specifically in first gear.

*edit* - once you start messing with stuff, however, all bets are off.

The B20B is another misconception - it, too, is slower than a B16A.

Presumption - FRM liners (the cyl liners in H22's and F20C/22C's) cannot be honed or bored

Myth - they actually can be bored and/or honed, but it involves using different stones, higher precision, and is a slower process. It is a pain, but it can be done. Luckily, since FRM is harder than normal liners, you should never have to hone.

Presumption - JDM engines cannot be BAR'd in California

Myth - JDM engines can be BAR'd if there is an equivalent USDM engine that needs to be replaced. Do some research and you can get it to work. Remember, you're still bound by what modifications can and cannot be used.

Presumption - H22A swaps add a lot of weight and understeer

Myth - mister2racer once did this comparison and found that the H22 shortblock weighs 19 lbs more than a B16 shortblock. An H22 trans weighs 6 lbs more than a B16 trans. He estimated that the head weighs about 10 lbs more than the B16 head. So, overall, an H22A swap weighs about 35 lbs more than a B16 swap. There is more then likely a few other odds and ends that add a pound or two here or there, but, overall, I'd say about 40 lbs and it's done.

Also, B series point straight up, where H series tend to lean toward the firewall. This lowers the moment of polar inertia by putting the mass more toward the center of the car. Overall, the handling isn't really much different.

If you see the people that argue that H-series are bad, those are usually people who have never owned one.

Props to mister2racer for actually setting this debate to rest.

Presumption - Turbo engines are less reliable then N/A builds

Myth - A well set up turbo engine, HP-for-HP, is generally more reliable than a N/A built engine. The reason has to do with internal stresses. Turbocharging an engine causes more strain due to producing more power alone. However, an N/A build usually involves faster spinning parts. remember, for every % faster the engine spins, it increases the internal by double that stress - this is because the engine's components are changing direction.

Presumption - Honda Preludes are heavy

Debatable - This depends on your definition of the word "heavy". A 4th Gen Prelude's curb weight is 2,809 lbs, or about the same as an Integra GS-R 4-door (2764 lbs). For reference, the GS-R coupe weights 2,672 lbs.

Basically put, a Prelude weighs a bit more than an Integra.

Presumption - Hatchbacks are the lightest kind of Civic

Fact - Hatchbacks and Coupes weigh about the same, with the hatchback edging them out by a couple lbs. (30 lbs on EGs, 20 lbs on EK's). On the other hand, coupes have a lower center of gravity and a lower drag ratio. In the end, they probably balance out. Both the Hatchback and the Coupe are substantially lighter than the sedans, which can weight anywhere from 75-200 lbs more.

This also holds true for Integras - Integra coupes weigh a good 75 lbs less than Integra sedans.

Presumption - H-series trans have long gears

Depends - Most do, but the Prelude VTEC trans has gears slightly shorter than the SiR-I B16, with the Accord Type-R, Prelude Type-S, and SiR-T having similar ratios. Just make sure you get a good one and trans ratios won't be a problem.

I'll leave the rest to you guys - go ahead and add to it.

HiProfile

That "myth" wasn't properly qualified. NA the B16 will be faster, but not by much. A stock B18B1 has more power until ~6500 rpm, and the stock b16 drops off after ~7600 rpm. The tranny makes a big difference.

Boosted is a different story. It was either Jeff Evans or Tony Palo who posted dyno graphs of a stock LS swap and stock B16 swap with the exact same turbo kits. The b16 made more peak power, but never beat the 1/4 mile time of the LS.


The first Myth I'd like to add is that a giant turbo at low boost will be faster than smaller turbo/high boost, and have more traction. It's a Myth, which goes back to the example above. Crazy lag and no mid-range will loose most races unless you can downshift like lightning and/or brake-boost. FYI by small, I mean 60trim T3 or 50trim t3/t04e, and by big I mean anything >60mm inducer.

Another Myth I'd like to add is that the lower the car, the faster around turns. It's a Myth, since riding on bumpstops w/stock shocks, hard springs, and mismatched sway bars will spin a car in short order. The center of gravity is not the end-all, be-all when it comes to cornering ability.

Korman

I was stating that as a general rule of thumb - you know, apples to apples kind of thing. When people start modifying stuff, all bets are off.

But, apples to apples, an entirely stock B16 in exactly the same car as an entirely stock LS with the same tires, same driver, and all the same variables will be a bit faster than a LS. Once you start fiddling with stuff, though... well, that's a case by case basis.

It's important to examine all the variables.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention to clarify that.

I agree with both of these myths you have presented.

Yes, a smaller turbo producing a certain amount of power will (generally) be faster than a large turbo producing the same amount of power. It's all about getting that turbo spinning.

Well, the suspension thing is just common sense. A moderately lowered car with a balanced, well thought-out suspension will always outperform some slammed-to-the-ground monstrosity.

These are good points, keep it going. I also like how we are *clarifying* non-specifics (such as the B16 argument, where I was not very specific) instead of arguing.

Hella_Reno

Is it true that if you don't use it you lose it?

2k.civic.si

Presumption - JDM engines cannot be BAR'd in California

Myth - JDM engines can be BAR'd if there is an equivalent USDM engine that needs to be replaced. Do some research and you can get it to work. Remember, you're still bound by what modifications can and cannot be used.

Very true...have a 1990 integra with jdm b16 swap and bar sticker in the door jam

Korman

HAHA really funny... but, since I previously majored in medicine before switching over to engineering, I will entertain this notion.

Presumption - If you don't use it, you lose it

Myth - Assuming they are in good health, men produce semen, containing sperm, their entire lives. As they age, the sperm count will slowly decline, but, generally, men remain fertile their entire lives.

Since erections are based on blood pressure filling the corpus callosum, and connective tissue kind of takes a dive in old age, many older men may have issuse maintaining an erection. This is, however, completely unrelated to to how often they had sex earlier in life.

Korman

Oh, some more little tidbits -

Presumption - Once you switch to synthetic oil, you cannot switch back

Myth - Synthetic oil isn't some "magical" substance that builds a protective film in the engine, as some people think. It, for all intents and purposes, is just like conventional oil, with some advantages, such as having higher resistances to linking or breaking of hydrocarbon chains (sludging and shearing), more uniform hydrocarbon chain size, and a few other quirks.

Synthetic is good stuff, but it is completely compatible with conventional oil. As proof, there are such things as "synthetic blends" which are part conventional oil, part synthetic oil. They are so compatible, sometions they come in the same bottle.

Here is proof as well:
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7017050

Korman

Presumption - Filling your tires with nitrogen will substantially increase fuel economy

Mostly Myth - The concept behind filling tires with nitrogen is that nitrogen has a larger atomic radius then the more active oxygen, and, therefore, will leak out of the tire more slowly, maintaining tire pressure and, therefore, fuel economy. The gas that usually fills a tire is, of course, air, which is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% argon (an inert gas used for inert gas welding, filling light bulbs, blue gas lasers, and blue discharge tubes/aqua "neon" signs).

Independent research shows that pure nitrogen bleeds out of a tire about 30-40% slower than normal dry air. Basically, for every 3 PSI lost normally, you would lose 2 PSI instead.

The other claim is that since nitrogen is more inert then oxygen, the tires will not rot as fast and last longer. No research has actually shown this to be true, and tires generally wear out their tread or blow out *long* before they would ever dry rot anyway.

Nitrogen is used in race cars and aircraft mostly because it is nonflammable (under normal circumstances). Also, as a single gas, small changes in pressure are easier to measure (this is because of partial pressure physics). These properties are of no real advantage to average drivers.

If you check your tire pressure regularly, then filling with nitrogen would give you no real advantage. Th real crime here is that many places charge to fill a tire with nitrogen, even though there is little real-world benefit.

If filling with nitrogen is free, it won't hurt, so, why not? But if they are charging for this service, forget it. It is pretty much a scam.

Korman

Presumption - The clutch is a good way to keep the car even on slanted red lights, uneven ground, hills, etc.

Myth (and destructive to the car) - I see people (mostly in Hondas) do this CONSTANTLY. Not only that, they will downshift to slow down for off-ramps, on-ramps, whatever...

This will roast your clutch! Quit doing it! Your car already has something for slowing it down, it's called the BRAKE. If you see people "bobbing" at red lights, on hills, or drying to merge into traffic, they are tearing their clutch apart.

A clutch will last 125,000+ miles if you don't ruin it. I've had them last longer than that - in fact, I've never had to change a clutch in my life.

It's cause I'm not retarded. Clutches are not like tires, you don't change them on a yearly basis. I'm sure most of you already know this, but we should work together to break the habit of the uneducated.

Presumption - All B series engines are DOHC

Myth - The first B-Series engines actually came in Preludes, and have some pretty significant difference to what is regarded as the "modern" B-series of engines. Some parts are compatible, but not all.

These engines came as both SOHC and DOHC and were the pioneer engines of several later-used Honda technologies, including PGM-FI (multi-point fuel injection) and FRM cyl liners, later used in H-series and S2000 engines.

Interesting note is that a B16 head can be modified to fit on a B20Ax/B21Ax, making it a VTEC engine.

Also, other markets have other odd engines such as the SOHC VTEC B15C2 (thanks to chinoy for pointing it out)

Presumption - Honda actually made a G family of engine

Fact - While many people call a F-family engine with an H-family head a "G" engine, this is very misleading because Honda actually made a G-family engine, in 2.0 and 2.5 L capacities. It is an odd engine, a longitudinally mounted I-5 SOHC 20-Valve engine. Came in Vigors and a few other cars.

It was ultimately replaced by C-family, and, later, J-family engines.

Figured this little fact can be used to avoid confusion in the future.

4stagecandy

this is still up for debate i went to bar my jdm h22a and failed because it was jdm went home bought a stamp kit stamped a 1 on the end which made it a h22a1 this was the only thing i did went back on my next appointment and passed

Korman

It can be done - get in contact with people to see who will do it and who will not. I've seen it done plenty of times. Usually you will get a little card stating the engine, the engine it replaced, and the reasoning as to why.

Also, it can depend on what car it is going in. A Prelude Type-S swap going into a Prelude SH is going to be approved much more easily then that same swap going in a EF hatchback, for obvious reasons.

However, they both have the potential to be approved - remember what BAR stands for - the engine is technically supposed to be a repair.

Anyone else have any interesting facts or automotive fallacies to share?

lastresort576

As far as auto-x(solo)

Presumption: You need all types of mods to suspension and HP in order to participate..

Myth: Seat time is the best mod. And when it comes to Honda's you will be a lot more competitive in a stock or stock prepared class.
A simple B-series swap in many civic/crx's excluding del sol's(if a b16a is swapped) will put you in Street Modified. That class holds many MONSTERS that you will most likely never be competitive with....The only honda I have ever seen in that class be competitive was a SC/k-swapped crx.