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Hi Guys , hoping to get some help here, I have imported a minitec rwd mini frame from the US. I have asked minitec for help but they are no longer replying
The frame purchase is supposed to be a b18c "bolt in" kit . Contacting them they imply there should of been mounts with the kit and the last email from them was promising they where going to be making some mounts and sending them out , my mounts are of a DC integra they claim theres are based off an EG chassis ,
Bellow From Minitec...
"We have a set of the mounts for the EG chassis that drops the engine side 2.25”. I will have my machinist make a block to drop your DC mount the 2.25”"
I offered to purchase there mounts for the EG just to get it done , I have not had any response since march
Any advice on where to go from here ?
thinking of making something up but I suspect these frames are actually designed off K series engines and they have mod mounts to suit .
I wouldnt of thought but are there K series to B mounts available? ...
What would you guys do ...
Cheers
loose bolts to lower
different angle
right hand side on top mount hole left side at height
Hey Skags,
interesting, I dream to put a K24 in to VW T2 and make it AWD, but a RWD B in a MINI will satisfy my hunger for challenge*.
I am not an engineer but I try to use other's bad experience and avoid it at the max.
Rule #1: Never trust custom aftermarket parts, got everithing checked before install, only by very few minor plug and play exceptions.
I had the same problem when was swapping d14z8 Auto for b18c4 Manual. Only 2 of the monts were at the right place.
the B18c4 layed sloped and twisted to one side just as yours. only difference was mine was 1" high on the transmission side
Ended up level with gheto spacers using nuts and washers till got it as factory spec. straight.
That was the easy answer, but I feel kind of need to express myself.
Looking at yours you have engine UP on the timing belt side, but not quite sure,
Usually would have an theoretical approach, which turns out to be oposite to what everyone does.
*Just because many ideas make a bunchy noise in the grey matter carrier.
I imagine the finished car at the selected ride height. just as any car designer would.
then place IN the engine (where is not intended to be).
As per my knowledge,
Engine/gearbox must be alidned with driving wheels at ride height.
in order to have the axles rotating in the proper angles, thus saving excesive bend forces on the axles and CV joints, and apply to the hubs/wheels only rotational forces.
What I`v done on my Civic MB8 chassis:
Suspended the engine on top inside the car.
Removed the axles,
Sort of fixed/placed wheels to chasis at ride position and height, inserted a 1" x 2m long bar to run trough hub--> gerbox--> hub (bar to act as a long single transaxle),
Then rotated on the fixed (by the bar) axis engine till got it completelly leveled (no mounts).
Once done this placed the working mounts,
Discovered the engine/gerabox needs to sit slightly front and up.
You need to keep the "engine" horizontaly leveled and move it to front about an 1/2-1" and up, nearly is the same ammount in front and above the hubs axis. Only a guess this position is correct also in factory Civics.
Never measured how far, assumed only by the flex ammount of the mount bushings, it doesn't need any further up or to front.
I guess this 1/2-1" missalignment is needed under axeleration,
The engnige rotates/moves backward trying to push the wheels forward, suspension bushings also compresses and all goes frontside,
By this have the transaxles leveled under acceeration in all x,y,z axis, aplying only rotational forces trough axles, hubs, wheels, avoiding bent forces.
Hope the nuts and washers, will not push you too look for longer bolts and solve your alignment.
EDIT:
(FWD) my engine sits lower 1/5" and in front of axles 1"
in your case perfect will be 1/5" above and 1" in front.
unles you are using harder suspension, bushings and engine mounts.
Hey Skags,
interesting, I dream to put a K24 in to VW T2 and make it AWD, but a RWD B in a MINI will satisfy my hunger for challenge*.
I am not an engineer but I try to use other's bad experience and avoid it at the max.
Rule #1: Never trust custom aftermarket parts, got everithing checked before install, only by very few minor plug and play exceptions.
I had the same problem when was swapping d14z8 Auto for b18c4 Manual. Only 2 of the monts were at the right place.
the B18c4 layed sloped and twisted to one side just as yours. only difference was mine was 1" high on the transmission side
Ended up level with gheto spacers using nuts and washers till got it as factory spec. straight.
That was the easy answer, but I feel kind of need to express myself.
Looking at yours you have engine UP on the timing belt side, but not quite sure,
Usually would have an theoretical approach, which turns out to be oposite to what everyone does.
*Just because many ideas make a bunchy noise in the grey matter carrier.
I imagine the finished car at the selected ride height. just as any car designer would.
then place IN the engine (where is not intended to be).
As per my knowledge,
Engine/gearbox must be alidned with driving wheels at ride height.
in order to have the axles rotating in the proper angles, thus saving excesive bend forces on the axles and CV joints, and apply to the hubs/wheels only rotational forces.
What I`v done on my Civic MB8 chassis:
Suspended the engine on top inside the car.
Removed the axles,
Sort of fixed/placed wheels to chasis at ride position and height, inserted a 1" x 2m long bar to run trough hub--> gerbox--> hub (bar to act as a long single transaxle),
Then rotated on the fixed (by the bar) axis engine till got it completelly leveled (no mounts).
Once done this placed the working mounts,
Discovered the engine/gerabox needs to sit slightly front and up.
You need to keep the "engine" horizontaly leveled and move it to front about an 1/2-1" and up, nearly is the same ammount in front and above the hubs axis. Only a guess this position is correct also in factory Civics.
Never measured how far, assumed only by the flex ammount of the mount bushings, it doesn't need any further up or to front.
I guess this 1/2-1" missalignment is needed under axeleration,
The engnige rotates/moves backward trying to push the wheels forward, suspension bushings also compresses and all goes frontside,
By this have the transaxles leveled under acceeration in all x,y,z axis, aplying only rotational forces trough axles, hubs, wheels, avoiding bent forces.
Hope the nuts and washers, will not push you too look for longer bolts and solve your alignment.
Cheers Mate wish you luck.
Thanks for your extremely helpful comments mate,
I will get it to its ride height this week and level off the engine and measure off where I think it would sit this week and then looking at it I think trying to extent the factory bracket on the cam cover side or make a new one would be the best option . I had loosened the bolts on the cam cover side to there lowest to show it needs to go down alot more still, there is two holes, high and low on the gearbox side. in the photo it was on the upper hole
I have only ever seen a handfull of these frames all being fitted with K engines , I ordered a B but was wondering if they just sent the K , I could go K but I have already built a sleeved B series .
No probs,
Yes you will need to extend the bolts on the cam cover side.
8.8 strenght and above. but not above 10 as become brital.
I tought the post was too long. Here we go for more info you may need.
Don't worry to have the engine an inch lower than "above spec". As not always possible, the max angle of axle distortion is around 10 degrees,
Operational best angle of the axles is 5 degrees in any direction. depending on the length of the shafts, engine bushings stiffness, suspension stiffness. etc.
But in the Mini you are limited in space, so watch out.
just keep an eye to equal the clearance of the chasis with the oil pan lowest point,
that's the lowest your engine can be. Further up an inch is for safety,
and if you are to rally it a goodie will be plate like this underneath the engine,
The lower the engine, the better the handling in cornering.
At least this kind of steel is waht I plan to put underneath my MB8 at front, chanel and back.
And last forgot to mention. The oil pan of the B series will gheto give you square level on x,y axis of the engine.
What tire sizes and gearbox are you planing to use?
If on stock tire size you will need 1:3,6(ish sort off) custom final drive, to keep this babe streatable. the 4,2 from the b18c will be too short.
but you already knew that.
My case
195/50/16
1st 60 kmh
2nd 110 kmh
3rd 145 kmh
4th 185 kmh
5th haven't reached the end but is much above 200.
I found this gearbox excelent for debuging M3 and even M5's owners, but for Motorway is pain in the seat parts.
if anything, just pm,
just to get you inspired the best MINI project ever
Binky!
Just another quick thing, I have the mounts as seen in the picture but no mounts or stabilizer for torque, any idea what would use here, I cant remember what the factory ones look like
Sorry mate could not quite undrestand,
English is not my strongest language... after 4 brown-ale bins
Do you mean sway bar / anty-roll bar?
if this is the case.
Front stabilazer bars from any Civic 5 based car for the rear
Front Sway Bar is mounted to the front subframe. trough bolts and bushings to the LCA.
you can use MG ZS, ROVER 400 serie, Civic 5th and 6th gen all have same mounting points but different thickness/ Stiffness.
Rear Sway Bar is mounted to 2 L-Shaped Square brackets to the Beams, and u shaped bracket to the LCA.
try this site, even if you don't understand it.
Front 1 stabilizer bar, 2 bushing on subframe , 3 U-bracket, 4-bushing on arm, 16 spacer
Rear
My rear looks diferent but this one is for civic 6th
8, bracket to chassis, 7 bushing in chassis, 6 U-bracket, 9/10 endlink.
in your case I would source 2 pieces MG-ZS 180 rear for the both rear and front. is 20mm thick
And then look for a propper link conection to LCA.
of cours it all depends.
Sorry to not be so specific but don't know the attach options you have.
top pic shows what looks like a mounting plate on the subframe , lower pic shows two bolt hole for what may be for a mount , does this look like it would be a factory mounting position and would there be a factory mount for it or will I have to fabricate something do you think , this would be the back of the engine if it where in a normal car
mount on the subframe
Originally Posted by atanatas
Sorry mate could not quite undrestand,
English is not my strongest language... after 4 brown-ale bins
Do you mean sway bar / anty-roll bar?
if this is the case.
Front stabilazer bars from any Civic 5 based car for the rear
Front Sway Bar is mounted to the front subframe. trough bolts and bushings to the LCA.
you can use MG ZS, ROVER 400 serie, Civic 5th and 6th gen all have same mounting points but different thickness/ Stiffness.
Rear Sway Bar is mounted to 2 L-Shaped Square brackets to the Beams, and u shaped bracket to the LCA.
try this site, even if you don't understand it.
Front 1 stabilizer bar, 2 bushing on subframe , 3 U-bracket, 4-bushing on arm, 16 spacer
Rear
My rear looks diferent but this one is for civic 6th
8, bracket to chassis, 7 bushing in chassis, 6 U-bracket, 9/10 endlink.
in your case I would source 2 pieces MG-ZS 180 rear for the both rear and front. is 20mm thick
And then look for a propper link conection to LCA.
of cours it all depends.
Sorry to not be so specific but don't know the attach options you have.
top pic shows what looks like a mounting plate on the subframe , lower pic shows two bolt hole for what may be for a mount , does this look like it would be a factory mounting position and would there be a factory mount for it or will I have to fabricate something do you think , this would be the back of the engine if it where in a normal car
mount on the subframe
What You need is rear engine mounts
T bracket attached at rear of engine & gearbox with 2 thick bolts, and the huge rubber goes to the frame you have.
Crv T bracket won't work. As gearbox mounting points are slightly misaligned.
Any b16 or b18 T bracket will work.
The rubber from any 5th or 6th Gen Civic should do.
Following are the Honda OEM parts # corresponding for B18C4 engine.
On your picture looks that all lined up pretty well.
Have you dealer with the other mounts? B18C engine mountsT bracket 50827-ST7-000BRACKET, ENGINE RR. MOUNTINGRear engine bushing.50810-ST3-E51INSULATOR, RR. ENGINE MOUNTING RUBBER (MT)
I think I kept those mounts I will have a hunt for them !
Worked out I need to drop the cam side of the engine 60mm to get level , when I look through the rear wheels towards the gearbox the splines where the axles go look bang on !
i have been told EK mounts are different and also the chassis mounts for automatic gearbox maybe different on the box side just about to look up whats needed for manual conversions
cheers for all your help so far!
Originally Posted by atanatas
What You need is rear engine mounts
T bracket attached at rear of engine & gearbox with 2 thick bolts, and the huge rubber goes to the frame you have.
Crv T bracket won't work. As gearbox mounting points are slightly misaligned.
Any b16 or b18 T bracket will work.
The rubber from any 5th or 6th Gen Civic should do.
Following are the Honda OEM parts # corresponding for B18C4 engine.
On your picture looks that all lined up pretty well.
Have you dealer with the other mounts? B18C engine mountsT bracket 50827-ST7-000BRACKET, ENGINE RR. MOUNTINGRear engine bushing.50810-ST3-E51INSULATOR, RR. ENGINE MOUNTING RUBBER (MT)
Right , got the mount on looks like it will line up ok , Im a bit short on bolts at the moment so will have to sort that out this week but all looks not to bad! , everything semi in place it looks like my best option is to try modify the existing cam cover side mount and if that fails then make something completely new .
Originally Posted by atanatas
What You need is rear engine mounts
T bracket attached at rear of engine & gearbox with 2 thick bolts, and the huge rubber goes to the frame you have.
Crv T bracket won't work. As gearbox mounting points are slightly misaligned.
Any b16 or b18 T bracket will work.
The rubber from any 5th or 6th Gen Civic should do.
Following are the Honda OEM parts # corresponding for B18C4 engine.
On your picture looks that all lined up pretty well.
Have you dealer with the other mounts? B18C engine mountsT bracket 50827-ST7-000BRACKET, ENGINE RR. MOUNTINGRear engine bushing.50810-ST3-E51INSULATOR, RR. ENGINE MOUNTING RUBBER (MT)
No problemz
Looking nice so far.
T -bracket is the hard to find.
Check this price: 45022-ST7-000 - Genuine Honda Pad Set, FR. (17Cl-14Vn)
The rubber bushing is same for all 5 gen, on my swap I reused the OEM form the D14 engine.
In your case for fitting purpouses just source from the junk yard. Once fitted buy a new one.
Only as info how to read the OEM Number:
45022- rear engine bracket, ST7 (B18C engine) INTEGRA Chassis, 000 Version #.
When you source the Ruber mount pay attention to have the flatest bottom side. Do not know exactly which models have a stronger "S" shaped Bed.
A guess ST3 in the OEM code means is for the EU/UK CIVIC MB chassis codes.
I use Russian online EPC for a refined search. ??????? ????????? Honda
Hope this helps further more.
Nope nothing available that I know of , but they are not to bad to do apparently. Im only using a dummy engine and block at the moment once everything mounted I will try work out exhaust manifold and plumbing . then ill install the engine, I still have some work to do on the box as looking to change the final drive on it only using 13" wheels
Originally Posted by atanatas
Next step is to link the gear shifter,
It exits at the back of the engine, is there any kit on the market?
Nope nothing available that I know of , but they are not to bad to do apparently. Im only using a dummy engine and block at the moment once everything mounted I will try work out exhaust manifold and plumbing . then ill install the engine, I still have some work to do on the box as looking to change the final drive on it only using 13" wheels
B series transmisions are all too short, prepare deep pocket discharge for the custom FD.
About the shifter assembly.
as an idea only
Cable shifter from accord, crv, with the cables 30-50 bucks
Custom made bracket with levers on the gearbox. It needs to rotate and go in and out. Something with opposed action of the shift lever.
Cannot say exact angles to move. But the shift lever could give you a cleu for the design.
Insulation
You will need to protect the assembly from heat and moisture, so it is to be closed box, for safety.
if I found something will post it.
Cheers.
B series transmisions are all too short, prepare deep pocket discharge for the custom FD.
About the shifter assembly.
as an idea only
Cable shifter from accord, crv, with the cables 30-50 bucks
Custom made bracket with levers on the gearbox. It needs to rotate and go in and out. Something with opposed action of the shift lever.
Cannot say exact angles to move. But the shift lever could give you a cleu for the design.
Insulation
You will need to protect the assembly from heat and moisture, so it is to be closed box, for safety.
if I found something will post it.
Cheers.
Forget about above,
Check this thread Instead:
My mid engine RWD turbo CRX
Made this up to try more permanent later on if it works out alright
You have it done,
Only for safety, is the block aluminum or steel?
if you don't want all rusted and deeply cracked,
use coated bolts with same toughness grade, and torque as per Honda manual.
To avoid excessive corrosion on the aluminum (as by default less noble than the steel) use a pre coated or wax the bolts to insulate the aluminum where contacting the steel.
I personally apply wax with higher resistance to snow dilutants and salt.
08-27-2016, 04:00 PM
b18c RWD engine mount problems MINITEC
